1 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:05,030 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:08,030 --> 00:00:06,810 triangle you know there's explanation 3 00:00:09,650 --> 00:00:08,040 for everything that appeared in the 4 00:00:11,450 --> 00:00:09,660 Rendlesham forest incident didn't 5 00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:11,460 involve aliens at all 6 00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:14,190 it was completely silent it comes right 7 00:00:19,340 --> 00:00:17,100 over our head it's so classic 8 00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:19,350 flying-saucer really standing in the 9 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:20,910 clearing he turned over to my father 10 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:22,650 held his hand and he looked in his eyes 11 00:00:31,759 --> 00:00:28,470 they said we're not alone welcome to 12 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:31,769 podcast UFO for our live show we're live 13 00:00:36,229 --> 00:00:34,079 every Wednesday at 8 p.m. Eastern 14 00:00:38,389 --> 00:00:36,239 Standard Time on the dark matter radio 15 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:38,399 network please remember to visit the 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:41,910 website podcast UFO calm for past 17 00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:45,090 episodes blogs and forums during the 18 00:00:49,549 --> 00:00:47,070 show feel free to participate live in 19 00:00:51,650 --> 00:00:49,559 our chat room and don't forget to like 20 00:00:54,319 --> 00:00:51,660 us on our very active Facebook page 21 00:00:56,060 --> 00:00:54,329 hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin 22 00:00:58,099 --> 00:00:56,070 will usher host we're starting at an 23 00:01:00,470 --> 00:00:58,109 hour late this evening to accommodate 24 00:01:02,510 --> 00:01:00,480 the guests but we're pretty excited to 25 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:02,520 have them on it's MJ Baniyas and he's 26 00:01:07,580 --> 00:01:04,710 going to be talking about basically 27 00:01:11,179 --> 00:01:07,590 philosophy and UFOs and he has a lot of 28 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:11,189 really good points and I I have a lot of 29 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:13,740 questions as far as this goes so I'm 30 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:15,570 pretty excited to have them on before 31 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:17,369 that we have Alejandro Rojas coming 32 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:19,890 right up live with the news I want to 33 00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:21,570 thank everyone that supports the show 34 00:01:25,910 --> 00:01:24,479 and if you are not able to support the 35 00:01:27,859 --> 00:01:25,920 show and want to listen to the full show 36 00:01:29,899 --> 00:01:27,869 you can always listen to it live and 37 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:29,909 it's usually at 8 to 10 p.m. Eastern 38 00:01:34,969 --> 00:01:32,700 Standard Time and that's on podcast UFO 39 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:34,979 it's also on our YouTube channel if you 40 00:01:39,289 --> 00:01:36,780 want to subscribe to our mailing list 41 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:39,299 you can see who our upcoming guests are 42 00:01:44,179 --> 00:01:41,610 we send out a newsletter once a week and 43 00:01:46,249 --> 00:01:44,189 that's right on podcast UFO comm you 44 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:46,259 just put your email address in there and 45 00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:49,290 that's it and also you can subscribe to 46 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:51,540 our youtube channel and see when that is 47 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:53,369 when shows are happening we also have 48 00:01:57,709 --> 00:01:56,070 the everything else show it's going to 49 00:02:00,499 --> 00:01:57,719 be on Monday nights not every Monday 50 00:02:03,109 --> 00:02:00,509 night but on Monday nights and this one 51 00:02:05,060 --> 00:02:03,119 coming up is on Lake Monsters so that 52 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:05,070 should be pretty interesting with Denver 53 00:02:10,010 --> 00:02:08,190 Michaels and also if you can't support 54 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:10,020 the show and you want to listen to the 55 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:11,250 full show it's on the Dark Matter 56 00:02:16,030 --> 00:02:13,710 digital network and that's every 57 00:02:17,690 --> 00:02:16,040 Thursday night at 10:00 to midnight 58 00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:17,700 Eastern Standard Time 59 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:22,980 alejandro how are you I am good so can 60 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:24,870 people see me the whole time snow you 61 00:02:29,630 --> 00:02:27,510 know I'm on the video we know just now 62 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:29,640 so I just came on hello everybody yeah 63 00:02:32,570 --> 00:02:31,290 no I wouldn't do that to you I wouldn't 64 00:02:35,630 --> 00:02:32,580 do that to me I wouldn't do that to you 65 00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:35,640 yeah well that would be you're good at 66 00:02:38,990 --> 00:02:37,590 awkward and that would be really awkward 67 00:02:40,820 --> 00:02:39,000 because it feels kind of awkward you're 68 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:40,830 waiting here and you see yourself and 69 00:02:43,340 --> 00:02:42,930 you're like am I on can people see me 70 00:02:45,830 --> 00:02:43,350 Kenneth 71 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:45,840 yeah so I'm not sure I'll do that next 72 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:50,810 time though yeah yeah so how you doing I 73 00:02:58,180 --> 00:02:54,510 am doing well not too bad busy busy but 74 00:03:01,310 --> 00:02:58,190 don't good I know last week we mentioned 75 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:01,320 of course we had a crash last week and 76 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:03,540 what had happened to let the people know 77 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:06,390 why we didn't have a show is we tried to 78 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:08,730 go on you were on the show but no one 79 00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:10,710 could hear you or they hear like every 80 00:03:18,140 --> 00:03:12,630 fourth word or something I ended up 81 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:18,150 being my youtube software for streaming 82 00:03:25,310 --> 00:03:22,170 was trying to was trying to upload a new 83 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:25,320 version so update and it just kept I 84 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:26,970 guess it was just attempting to so it 85 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:29,370 wasn't working properly so I apologize 86 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:32,220 to the listeners for no show last week 87 00:03:37,090 --> 00:03:34,740 but anyway the exciting news that you 88 00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:37,100 told everyone is that you and your 89 00:03:53,290 --> 00:03:42,020 girlfriend now own the UFO Congress in 90 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:53,300 congratulations good so yes that's true 91 00:03:59,450 --> 00:03:56,910 this is the third time we've talked 92 00:04:02,270 --> 00:03:59,460 about it but the show keeps getting 93 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:02,280 messed up or something but or just not 94 00:04:05,570 --> 00:04:03,690 available but yes 95 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:05,580 it's been a while now so that's what you 96 00:04:09,380 --> 00:04:07,530 keeping me really busy although I've 97 00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:09,390 always been busy with the UFO Congress 98 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:10,560 that I've been running it for years now 99 00:04:18,349 --> 00:04:13,710 but really excited about it 100 00:04:20,630 --> 00:04:18,359 we now are running everything but people 101 00:04:22,430 --> 00:04:20,640 really won't see any changes it'll be 102 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:22,440 all of the same I still work for open 103 00:04:25,550 --> 00:04:23,850 mindset TV we're still going to be 104 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:25,560 talking about open minds that TV news 105 00:04:29,930 --> 00:04:27,750 and 106 00:04:32,330 --> 00:04:29,940 open mind is so big part of the whole 107 00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:32,340 thing so yeah really it doesn't change 108 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:35,520 too much for people but it's exciting 109 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:37,830 yes and can you talk about any of the 110 00:04:47,090 --> 00:04:43,710 guest speakers you have lined up yeah so 111 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:47,100 let's see we've got a couple people that 112 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:49,470 we have okay let's see I've got four 113 00:04:53,870 --> 00:04:51,150 posted right now that we got public 114 00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:53,880 we're a lot more that we're working on 115 00:04:58,670 --> 00:04:56,400 but one of those is the return of Steve 116 00:05:01,190 --> 00:04:58,680 Bassett so that'll be fun he's been in 117 00:05:05,150 --> 00:05:01,200 Europe for awhile he essentially I think 118 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:05,160 he's after the election he actually you 119 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:06,510 know a lot of people threatened to leave 120 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:08,990 the country and he actually did it and 121 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:11,460 so he hasn't been around too much in the 122 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:13,770 US but he is coming back for the 123 00:05:17,420 --> 00:05:15,450 conference so it ought to be interesting 124 00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:17,430 to hear from him because you know we 125 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:18,870 haven't heard from him for a while and 126 00:05:25,340 --> 00:05:22,289 he has a lot of stories to share about 127 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:25,350 his efforts out there otherwise we're 128 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:27,180 gonna have Bryce's able and this is 129 00:05:30,469 --> 00:05:27,690 exciting 130 00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:30,479 have you met him on the show oh you 131 00:05:34,909 --> 00:05:32,880 haven't have Bryce table so Bryce used 132 00:05:36,890 --> 00:05:34,919 to run the Academy Awards for a period 133 00:05:39,890 --> 00:05:36,900 of time but before that he was a CNN 134 00:05:42,650 --> 00:05:39,900 anchor and then he was also but mostly 135 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:42,660 he's worked in movies so he's produced a 136 00:05:47,750 --> 00:05:45,090 lot of stuff what was that the name dark 137 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:47,760 skies that television program was mostly 138 00:05:52,550 --> 00:05:49,860 him like it was his idea and he got that 139 00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:52,560 done but he's working on a couple movies 140 00:05:58,010 --> 00:05:56,700 right now one cold like the majestic man 141 00:05:59,990 --> 00:05:58,020 or something like that they're gonna 142 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:00,000 call it with that essentially around 143 00:06:03,950 --> 00:06:02,130 dawn Schmidt and Sam Friedman that 144 00:06:05,450 --> 00:06:03,960 that's who it's gonna be about they're 145 00:06:07,460 --> 00:06:05,460 gonna have actors I'll hang them and 146 00:06:10,010 --> 00:06:07,470 then he's also working on a movie for 147 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:10,020 Betty hill and on the Betty Hill case 148 00:06:14,210 --> 00:06:12,090 and these have been greenlighter already 149 00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:14,220 so he's working on these projects right 150 00:06:19,250 --> 00:06:17,220 now big budgets you know Hollywood type 151 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:19,260 of deals so he's gonna be their really 152 00:06:25,219 --> 00:06:21,720 cool guy I've known him for years we're 153 00:06:27,589 --> 00:06:25,229 gonna also have Jennifer Stein she was 154 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:27,599 supposed to be there last year but she 155 00:06:31,730 --> 00:06:29,940 had a family emergency and couldn't make 156 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:31,740 it so she's going to talk about crop 157 00:06:35,750 --> 00:06:33,450 circles I haven't seen this talk that 158 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:35,760 she's going to do but everybody who has 159 00:06:38,930 --> 00:06:37,440 seen it says it's going to be great and 160 00:06:41,030 --> 00:06:38,940 the other person we're gonna have his 161 00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:41,040 tal Keller and he's 162 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:43,500 interesting because he is an aerospace 163 00:06:47,390 --> 00:06:45,570 engineer that's where he spent most of 164 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:47,400 his life so he's going to be talking 165 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:49,770 about UFOs and interest sake he's had 166 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:51,870 he's also going to be talking about you 167 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:53,790 know are there there's are ours the 168 00:06:58,370 --> 00:06:55,170 potential that some of these are black 169 00:07:01,580 --> 00:06:58,380 projects that sort of thing from his 170 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:01,590 perspective as an engineer great okay 171 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:04,260 well that's a good little preview there 172 00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:05,310 and I know 173 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:08,400 February's a long way away but I already 174 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:11,430 booked the hotel rooms there that's all 175 00:07:14,660 --> 00:07:12,930 done I'm excited to come out this year 176 00:07:18,230 --> 00:07:14,670 and hopefully a storm will not keep me 177 00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:18,240 away like last year no so what's going 178 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:18,480 on 179 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:23,130 yeah fo News UFO news why I want to talk 180 00:07:27,050 --> 00:07:25,290 about this news this is a story I wrote 181 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:27,060 recently although it's kind of old news 182 00:07:30,470 --> 00:07:28,320 but I don't think it's anything we've 183 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:30,480 talked about old news for us me because 184 00:07:35,690 --> 00:07:33,570 it you know for us a week as is old news 185 00:07:37,220 --> 00:07:35,700 but a couple of these stories that came 186 00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:37,230 out recently and we haven't talked about 187 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:39,870 which is NASA hiring a planetary 188 00:07:45,770 --> 00:07:43,260 protection officer and also the US Air 189 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:45,780 Force seeking funding for a space Corps 190 00:07:50,870 --> 00:07:47,610 so these are interesting and they're 191 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:50,880 kind of related in that the planetary 192 00:07:55,070 --> 00:07:52,740 protection officer position of course 193 00:07:57,110 --> 00:07:55,080 everybody got excited is it's gonna be a 194 00:07:59,570 --> 00:07:57,120 position where they're you know keeping 195 00:08:01,430 --> 00:07:59,580 UFOs away or looking for aliens and that 196 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:01,440 sort of thing that's what the headlines 197 00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:02,940 were and that's what everybody assumed 198 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:05,460 but that's not really what it was the 199 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:07,290 space core is the same kind of thing 200 00:08:12,140 --> 00:08:09,090 everybody's you know the headlines were 201 00:08:13,970 --> 00:08:12,150 having fun with it are they going to be 202 00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:13,980 fighting aliens or something like this 203 00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:16,470 but no that's not the case so the 204 00:08:23,750 --> 00:08:19,470 planetary protection officer they that 205 00:08:25,580 --> 00:08:23,760 posting went out for NASA and people got 206 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:25,590 excited it got in the headlines and a 207 00:08:29,690 --> 00:08:27,330 nine-year-old boy actually applied for 208 00:08:31,730 --> 00:08:29,700 it he says he watches guardian of the 209 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:31,740 galaxies you know he watches all of the 210 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:34,050 alien shows and and he thinks he would 211 00:08:39,140 --> 00:08:37,110 do a good job so NASA replied and I 212 00:08:41,990 --> 00:08:39,150 think they use just reply to this kid as 213 00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:42,000 a vehicle to kind of clarify what this 214 00:08:47,630 --> 00:08:45,120 job is even though it says it in very 215 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:47,640 technical terms in the job posting which 216 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:50,310 is really this person is in charge of 217 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:54,420 like procedures for decontamination so 218 00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:55,170 when we bring 219 00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:57,120 stuff back from the moon or when we go 220 00:09:01,340 --> 00:08:59,279 to other planets to make sure that we're 221 00:09:02,690 --> 00:09:01,350 not contaminating other planets and that 222 00:09:04,759 --> 00:09:02,700 sort of thing so that's what this 223 00:09:07,490 --> 00:09:04,769 position is they've actually had it 224 00:09:09,740 --> 00:09:07,500 since the 60s so with all this new 225 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:09,750 secret space stuff that's been in the 226 00:09:13,389 --> 00:09:11,430 you know people talking about has 227 00:09:16,490 --> 00:09:13,399 nothing to do with anything like that 228 00:09:18,230 --> 00:09:16,500 it's more of a kind of a boring job and 229 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:18,240 it's kind of funny if anybody saw alien 230 00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:20,190 covenant they definitely could have used 231 00:09:24,949 --> 00:09:23,040 some of these protocols when they the 232 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:24,959 space colonist went flying out there 233 00:09:29,150 --> 00:09:26,130 you've seen the movie you know what I'm 234 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:29,160 talking about the space Court now this 235 00:09:34,819 --> 00:09:32,370 actually was passed by the house to fund 236 00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:34,829 a space Corps for the United States Air 237 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:38,760 Force and you know it sounds exciting 238 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:42,060 but and it is maybe somewhat exciting 239 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:44,850 but it's mostly around space it is space 240 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:48,750 warfare but it's it's in competition you 241 00:09:53,540 --> 00:09:50,970 know technologically with the Chinese 242 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:53,550 and the Russian so this is looking for 243 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:56,130 different sort of space weapons in space 244 00:10:00,280 --> 00:09:57,930 how do we create them how do we keep the 245 00:10:03,019 --> 00:10:00,290 Russians and the Chinese from doing that 246 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:03,029 really the technology at this point is 247 00:10:08,810 --> 00:10:06,180 is where we have like or at least the 248 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:08,820 Chinese have like you know satellite 249 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:11,130 jammers that can jam the communication 250 00:10:14,750 --> 00:10:12,630 from the satellite coming to earth 251 00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:14,760 that's the kind of area they're looking 252 00:10:18,610 --> 00:10:16,800 at now we really don't have anything 253 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:18,620 that could take out satellite so they're 254 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:20,730 practicing these sort of things all the 255 00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:20,970 time 256 00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:23,399 lasers and other things that they can 257 00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:26,550 try to take out like literally destroy 258 00:10:31,189 --> 00:10:29,790 them or just make them inoperable so 259 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:31,199 that's that's kind of what they were 260 00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,600 looking at doing essentially it got to 261 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:35,519 the Senate the White House kind of 262 00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:37,050 laughed it off and said hey that we're 263 00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:40,350 way too premature to do this however so 264 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:42,870 it's probably not gonna pass but we do 265 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:44,730 already have a Space Command and the 266 00:10:49,059 --> 00:10:46,649 Space Command does similar things like 267 00:10:51,379 --> 00:10:49,069 this it's a US Air Force Space Command 268 00:10:53,629 --> 00:10:51,389 they are in charge of those satellites 269 00:10:57,319 --> 00:10:53,639 that are out there but they're also in 270 00:10:59,150 --> 00:10:57,329 charge of some of these you know some a 271 00:11:02,090 --> 00:10:59,160 lot of secret projects who knows what's 272 00:11:04,759 --> 00:11:02,100 going on but you know as I've shared I'm 273 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:04,769 skeptical of this whole space we kind of 274 00:11:08,990 --> 00:11:07,410 idea but we have seen in the news lately 275 00:11:12,770 --> 00:11:09,000 at this little kind of time 276 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:12,780 an unmanned space shuttle that the Air 277 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:15,690 Force has and it is ran by a Space 278 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:18,930 Command and it flies secret projects in 279 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:20,730 fact it was in space for like a full 280 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:23,400 year flying around they haven't revealed 281 00:11:28,460 --> 00:11:26,160 what it was doing but they had showed 282 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:28,470 they have shown pictures of the object 283 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:30,090 or of this craft and everything so 284 00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:31,110 they've kind of even 285 00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:32,820 you know told everybody hey we've got 286 00:11:36,290 --> 00:11:34,590 this craft but we're not gonna tell you 287 00:11:39,470 --> 00:11:36,300 what it's doing it's probably taking 288 00:11:41,150 --> 00:11:39,480 pictures and stuff like that but yeah so 289 00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:41,160 that's that's if people were wondering 290 00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,230 what about these space cores and I had 291 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:45,360 to have some questions recently you know 292 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:48,510 what about these these crazy NASA and 293 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:51,420 Air Force space quarter soldiers and 294 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:53,610 warfare and fighting that they're trying 295 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:55,950 to hire people for mm-hmm you know 296 00:11:59,210 --> 00:11:57,690 that's been blown out of proportion a 297 00:12:01,790 --> 00:11:59,220 little bit this is what they really are 298 00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:01,800 oh hey someone in the chat room wanted 299 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:03,480 to know what your thoughts were on the 300 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:10,140 recent mo D release of files uh well 301 00:12:15,770 --> 00:12:13,290 there were a few mo D files released not 302 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:15,780 a whole lot I think there was something 303 00:12:19,820 --> 00:12:17,310 like eight although they're supposed to 304 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:19,830 be 13 so there's still some that haven't 305 00:12:24,579 --> 00:12:22,860 been released it was frustrating that it 306 00:12:26,990 --> 00:12:24,589 took them so long they were supposed to 307 00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:27,000 release these a couple years ago and 308 00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:29,820 they said they were going to but it they 309 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:32,220 got delayed by a couple years but it 310 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:34,410 doesn't have an NIC Pope you know I've 311 00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:36,270 interviewed him maybe you have to about 312 00:12:39,890 --> 00:12:37,800 you know what was going to be in those 313 00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,900 files and some of those files that may 314 00:12:44,540 --> 00:12:42,000 be of interest and he said there's no 315 00:12:48,290 --> 00:12:44,550 smoking gun in them and and there isn't 316 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:48,300 there are a couple interesting cases but 317 00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,140 that's about all 318 00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:51,360 so we've got some links and we've been 319 00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:52,830 posting news on some of those 320 00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:54,660 interesting cases and maybe I'll compile 321 00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,440 a story about you know what they have 322 00:13:03,200 --> 00:12:59,760 what they all have what was frustrating 323 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:03,210 about these files them was that in the 324 00:13:10,340 --> 00:13:07,950 past when the UK military of Defense or 325 00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:10,350 their archives have released these UFO 326 00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:12,150 files they've shared them with the 327 00:13:16,130 --> 00:13:13,980 public digitally so you could download 328 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:16,140 them and they make them free for a month 329 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:18,060 and then you have to pay it for them 330 00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:21,510 after that and in the UK it's different 331 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:22,830 in the US 332 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:24,570 you know anything that the government 333 00:13:30,140 --> 00:13:28,050 creates we can use its public domain for 334 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:30,150 us in the UK it's different they have 335 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:31,950 copyright over them so you can't use 336 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:33,510 them without the permission of the UK 337 00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:36,530 government or paying them to use them so 338 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:39,180 but what they did with these files is 339 00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:42,770 you could only get them by going to the 340 00:13:49,010 --> 00:13:46,560 National Archives outside of London in 341 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:49,020 the UK to get these files so you had to 342 00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:52,170 go get them print you know photocopy em 343 00:13:55,340 --> 00:13:53,940 and then you can take them with you but 344 00:13:59,150 --> 00:13:55,350 that was the only way you could get them 345 00:14:00,800 --> 00:13:59,160 so you know Nick Pope talked about this 346 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:00,810 is probably because they didn't want 347 00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:02,730 them to make as much news as they have 348 00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:06,120 in the past but Nick was intent on 349 00:14:09,740 --> 00:14:08,430 making them news anyway and he did a 350 00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:09,750 good job of it because he did an 351 00:14:13,580 --> 00:14:11,100 interview so it's a lot of the 352 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:13,590 difference on news outlets in the UK and 353 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:17,850 some here on those files but other than 354 00:14:22,580 --> 00:14:20,880 that you know some of the local tabloids 355 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:22,590 did some stories on them but just 356 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:25,290 nothing too exciting on those files but 357 00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:27,930 yeah some new ones did come out but 358 00:14:31,970 --> 00:14:30,180 we're awaiting three or four more and it 359 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:31,980 is curious why they didn't release them 360 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:34,110 all at once and why they've taken so 361 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:36,900 long to release these files and why 362 00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:38,370 they've only made them available 363 00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:40,500 physically instead of making them 364 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:42,270 available digitally as they happen right 365 00:14:47,810 --> 00:14:44,880 now yeah that is really strange why they 366 00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:47,820 have held back after all this time and 367 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:49,980 it makes you wonder why they would hold 368 00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:52,650 out even any at all if they were 369 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:54,750 releasing you know which is it's just 370 00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:58,170 strange yeah it is kind of strange I 371 00:15:02,660 --> 00:14:59,760 mean if there was like thousands I could 372 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:02,670 understand them releasing you know 2000 373 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:04,710 and still a thousand left but I mean if 374 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:07,710 there's just a few left that is strange 375 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:11,130 to me it is strange and John Burroughs 376 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:12,630 was the one who called him out on it 377 00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:14,730 because he knew these files existed and 378 00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:16,920 he requested these files he wanted to 379 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,710 see them and they told him to wait 380 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:21,120 because we're gonna release them all 381 00:15:25,190 --> 00:15:23,610 this was prior to 2008 they ended up 382 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:25,200 releasing all the files and these files 383 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:27,510 weren't in there so Burroughs kept you 384 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:29,430 know telling him hey we want these files 385 00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:31,350 and they kind of ignored him but finally 386 00:15:36,439 --> 00:15:34,200 Brits um British citizens read some of 387 00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,449 the stories that he had written 388 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:38,639 and so they followed up with requests 389 00:15:42,319 --> 00:15:40,230 their version of the Freedom of 390 00:15:44,599 --> 00:15:42,329 Information Act requests and then 391 00:15:46,549 --> 00:15:44,609 finally they said we would release him 392 00:15:49,819 --> 00:15:46,559 this was all the way back you know this 393 00:15:52,309 --> 00:15:49,829 was a 2014 I think and it's taken him 394 00:15:54,199 --> 00:15:52,319 this long to get out John burrows being 395 00:15:57,499 --> 00:15:54,209 one of the witnesses at the Rendlesham 396 00:16:00,079 --> 00:15:57,509 forest you know a US servicemen who had 397 00:16:05,119 --> 00:16:00,089 a sighting on a base that was leased to 398 00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:05,129 the US in the UK back in 1980 and he 399 00:16:09,379 --> 00:16:07,230 felt he had some physiological effects 400 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:09,389 and that's why he was interested in 401 00:16:15,079 --> 00:16:11,790 there any sightings list over this last 402 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:15,089 week or so yeah definitely have some 403 00:16:21,139 --> 00:16:17,850 pretty interesting ones this one I like 404 00:16:22,970 --> 00:16:21,149 just because it is similar to what a lot 405 00:16:24,769 --> 00:16:22,980 of people see and this is a point of 406 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:24,779 light that people you know a lot of 407 00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:26,970 people will report I think you know this 408 00:16:31,069 --> 00:16:28,769 is the most that I've heard and this 409 00:16:32,449 --> 00:16:31,079 term is using the most SIG's agging or 410 00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,459 there'll be a point of light kind of 411 00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,079 like a satellite moving across and then 412 00:16:38,989 --> 00:16:36,720 that zigzags around and flies off a lot 413 00:16:41,119 --> 00:16:38,999 of people report this sort of thing and 414 00:16:44,509 --> 00:16:41,129 this report is similar this was at 415 00:16:47,449 --> 00:16:44,519 ormond-by-the-sea in Florida this was 416 00:16:51,019 --> 00:16:47,459 just on August 10th where this gentleman 417 00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:51,029 who calls himself a military brat and he 418 00:16:57,559 --> 00:16:55,649 served 14 years himself in the Army he 419 00:17:00,189 --> 00:16:57,569 and his wife were out just kind of 420 00:17:02,749 --> 00:17:00,199 enjoying the ocean in Florida and 421 00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:02,759 enjoying the sunset when they saw 422 00:17:06,259 --> 00:17:04,439 something like this they saw a light 423 00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:06,269 that just kind of zigzagged around and 424 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:09,299 flew off it's an interesting case he 425 00:17:14,509 --> 00:17:12,510 kind of drew what it looked like but I 426 00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:14,519 just felt it was kind of interesting 427 00:17:18,679 --> 00:17:16,589 because he's in the military you know it 428 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:18,689 really baffled him and I think that a 429 00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:23,010 lot of people will you know feel that 430 00:17:26,509 --> 00:17:24,600 they've seen something similar because 431 00:17:29,149 --> 00:17:26,519 this is a very common report but he also 432 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:29,159 did make a graphic of essentially the 433 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:31,230 movements of this object that you can 434 00:17:36,139 --> 00:17:34,470 see on the report as well and then 435 00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,149 another one for people who like videos 436 00:17:40,220 --> 00:17:37,919 because everybody's complaining Oh what 437 00:17:41,899 --> 00:17:40,230 would then you know what isn't that UFO 438 00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:41,909 sighting have a video or a picture well 439 00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,340 some of them do but as you'll see in 440 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:46,320 this sighting they don't always add a 441 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:48,090 lot of information but it is kind of 442 00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:49,710 weird and I don't know if you looked at 443 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:50,340 this one 444 00:18:00,200 --> 00:17:55,710 mm-hmm yeah it's kind of a weird video 445 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:00,210 it's from August 6th actually 2017 when 446 00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:02,730 this person saw what looked like just 447 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:05,220 two objects kind of flying together one 448 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:07,650 of them faded out and one of them was 449 00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:10,110 still there he was able to get a picture 450 00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:13,350 of this with his phone and it's just an 451 00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:16,740 odd shape it's kind of like there's a 452 00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:18,780 kind of fish that kind of has like a 453 00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,880 similar kind of shape look at this I can 454 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:23,280 actually kind of show people who are 455 00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:25,410 watching Thank You Tube yeah from my 456 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:27,420 phone well you know weird shape was 457 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:29,190 thank you that and you could see that 458 00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:32,670 flying along in this video it's a short 459 00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:35,070 video it's not that great of a video but 460 00:18:38,270 --> 00:18:36,540 it was kind of interesting it was kind 461 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:38,280 of cool because what this guy did was 462 00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:42,450 also zoom in on an aircraft to just show 463 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:44,820 you know how well his phone could zoom 464 00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:49,250 as you know to show the relationship but 465 00:18:53,330 --> 00:18:51,390 yeah I don't know what that was that was 466 00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:53,340 kind of a weird one so people can check 467 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:54,750 that out watch the video and see what 468 00:19:01,160 --> 00:18:57,090 the excellent alright Alejandro well 469 00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:01,170 we'll be seeing you next week at the 470 00:19:03,710 --> 00:19:02,070 right time 471 00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:03,720 thanks for up thanks for coming in late 472 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:06,870 on this one yeah no problem 473 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:08,490 and that just remind people they can 474 00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,290 find this at open mindset TV all the 475 00:19:14,420 --> 00:19:12,240 stories right out that's right alright 476 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:14,430 take care talk to you next week 477 00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:19,080 take care oh yeah I can't hang you up 478 00:19:26,770 --> 00:19:23,160 you're gonna have to alright so what if 479 00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:26,780 I down then you can join us for the show 480 00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:30,360 and that's great but I like don't take 481 00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:35,280 care alright so our guest MJ welcome to 482 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:40,440 the show thanks very much Amy so I'm 483 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:42,690 real excited to talk to you I think I 484 00:19:51,170 --> 00:19:46,410 think a lot of or I think a lot of what 485 00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:51,180 people think about UFOs is all based on 486 00:19:57,380 --> 00:19:53,460 philosophy because we certainly don't 487 00:20:02,360 --> 00:19:57,390 have you know we certainly don't have 488 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:02,370 any evidence and so this is a what first 489 00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:04,230 of all before we get into anything what 490 00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:08,580 what sparked your your thoughts on this 491 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:14,220 whole situation I think you know I sort 492 00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:15,570 of come at it from you know the way most 493 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:17,940 of us do growing up you know you sort of 494 00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:21,090 watch you know a lot of the UFO shows 495 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:24,030 and you know x-files and Star Trek and 496 00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,740 all that so you know as a kid growing up 497 00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:27,360 I really enjoyed sort of science fiction 498 00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:31,230 and you know the the idea and the 499 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:33,750 possibility of life elsewhere in the 500 00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:37,260 universe as a sort of a subject in 501 00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:38,940 university I said in critical theory 502 00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:40,260 which is sort of my academic background 503 00:20:44,930 --> 00:20:43,230 and and critical theories basically you 504 00:20:47,090 --> 00:20:44,940 sort of cultural philosophy we talked 505 00:20:50,060 --> 00:20:47,100 about primarily sort of popular culture 506 00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:50,070 mainstream culture and how and why we 507 00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:52,500 sort of live our lives you know day to 508 00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:56,640 day and my focus in university was on 509 00:21:01,520 --> 00:20:58,410 subcultures I really enjoyed talking 510 00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:01,530 about why certain people sort of 511 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:04,380 congregate and and discuss certain sort 512 00:21:08,539 --> 00:21:06,570 of specific things that are generally 513 00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:08,549 not considered normal or our mainstream 514 00:21:15,049 --> 00:21:11,880 or popular and and over the years I sort 515 00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:15,059 of realized that UFO culture or UFO 516 00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:16,559 subculture or the UFO community 517 00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:20,070 sometimes we call it is something that's 518 00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:21,900 very interesting the interesting group 519 00:21:26,659 --> 00:21:24,780 of people to look at and as I sort of 520 00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:26,669 started looking into a little more I 521 00:21:31,460 --> 00:21:28,679 became interested and I sort of I guess 522 00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:31,470 unofficially joined it became a MUFON 523 00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:34,200 field investigator for awhile and you 524 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:35,760 know really just got into the subject 525 00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,250 got into the community and ever since 526 00:21:42,890 --> 00:21:40,799 its kind of just like like a train gone 527 00:21:45,310 --> 00:21:42,900 off the rails and into you know I can't 528 00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:45,320 stop it now and it's out of control 529 00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:47,760 but you know to go back to you sort of 530 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,390 your initial point and it doesn't take 531 00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:53,280 long for someone who walks into the UFO 532 00:21:59,150 --> 00:21:57,510 culture to see that you know we've been 533 00:22:01,640 --> 00:21:59,160 kind of running over the same old ground 534 00:22:03,169 --> 00:22:01,650 and the science has been running over 535 00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:03,179 the same old ground and has ultimately 536 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:06,480 solved nothing you know 70 years in if 537 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:09,510 we sort of stayed as 1947 being sort of 538 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:11,940 the unofficial start of UFOs or at least 539 00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,890 popular ufology and 540 00:22:18,860 --> 00:22:16,080 you know nothing's really been solved 541 00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:18,870 like you say there's no evidence so I 542 00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,550 think we need to approach the UFO 543 00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:22,440 question from a different standpoint and 544 00:22:27,260 --> 00:22:25,350 I think science is definitely one sort 545 00:22:29,390 --> 00:22:27,270 of aspect of it but definitely 546 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:29,400 philosophy and theory and culture 547 00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:31,530 studies and other disciplines definitely 548 00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:33,390 need to get themselves involved if we're 549 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:35,160 ever gonna sort of come to some sort of 550 00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:37,890 when you were a field investigator for 551 00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:41,060 MUFON did you investigate any cases that 552 00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:45,060 you thought were baffling that thought 553 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:49,590 that was really something to this I 554 00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:52,050 think ultimately you know in my entire 555 00:22:55,850 --> 00:22:54,600 career and it was along I was only a 556 00:22:59,180 --> 00:22:55,860 movement for about two and a half years 557 00:23:00,920 --> 00:22:59,190 and my plan was to stay longer however 558 00:23:02,780 --> 00:23:00,930 just sort of due to political reasons 559 00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:02,790 and the political climate of MUFON sort 560 00:23:06,170 --> 00:23:04,740 of over the last couple of months I'm 561 00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:06,180 sure you know most of you audience 562 00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:10,470 remembers sort of the the debacles that 563 00:23:15,410 --> 00:23:12,750 occurred sort of in a row for MUFON and 564 00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:15,420 I decided that you know MUFON is an 565 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:17,340 organization that I can no longer be a 566 00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:20,280 part of sort of just them personally as 567 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:24,390 well as just sort of what I personally 568 00:23:27,260 --> 00:23:26,070 believe is a person personally believe 569 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:27,270 is a person that's in silly but I 570 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:30,480 personally believe as just a human being 571 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,860 on this planet who who doesn't want to 572 00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:33,360 be involved with sort of certain people 573 00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:36,000 and I guess due to politics have to 574 00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:37,860 remain positions within the organization 575 00:23:45,410 --> 00:23:41,340 and I also have philosophical problems I 576 00:23:48,410 --> 00:23:45,420 think with move fund making claims that 577 00:23:51,260 --> 00:23:48,420 it's a scientific body meanwhile hosting 578 00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,270 symposiums concerning topics that are 579 00:23:56,090 --> 00:23:53,760 not at all scientific and are completely 580 00:23:58,150 --> 00:23:56,100 speculation or speculative with with 581 00:24:00,410 --> 00:23:58,160 little evidence to support them if any 582 00:24:02,210 --> 00:24:00,420 so you know I had my I had my 583 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:02,220 separations with fun overall answer your 584 00:24:07,670 --> 00:24:03,930 question and there was one case that I 585 00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:07,680 that I sort of listed as an unknown only 586 00:24:13,610 --> 00:24:11,100 because I could not figure out in any 587 00:24:16,550 --> 00:24:13,620 way like I couldn't disprove it that of 588 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:16,560 what the sighting was and so I did list 589 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:18,630 it as an unknown I did sort of put a 590 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:20,940 caveat in there saying that you know I 591 00:24:25,370 --> 00:24:23,610 doubt this is something that is you know 592 00:24:27,650 --> 00:24:25,380 otherworldly 593 00:24:28,790 --> 00:24:27,660 but it was definitely something I 594 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:28,800 couldn't explain it was definitely 595 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:31,710 something that as I sort of did the 596 00:24:35,810 --> 00:24:33,720 research and you know looked at all of 597 00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:35,820 the data out there flight patterns you 598 00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:38,220 know meteor meteor odd meteorological 599 00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:39,720 events talking to the witnesses there 600 00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,960 were two of them you know as far as I 601 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:44,880 know they saw what they saw so that was 602 00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:47,370 an interesting case for sure huh now the 603 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:50,790 French had a report I'm trying to 604 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:52,530 remember the name of the report on UFOs 605 00:25:00,220 --> 00:24:56,450 uh you know which one I'm talking about 606 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:00,230 did the one that I talked about yeah 607 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:06,510 it's a I minored in my mind that so but 608 00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:08,730 Leslie did you know the only reason she 609 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:10,830 got involved in UFO as I'm sure you know 610 00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,710 is because of this report she read the 611 00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:16,080 report and thought wow if this is you 612 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:17,700 know the extra-terrestrial theory is 613 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:20,070 here best you know their best guess of 614 00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:22,620 what is going on and team of scientists 615 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:26,640 and you know so what do you think about 616 00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:30,720 that report you know the thing that I 617 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,480 I've heard you say in another interview 618 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:35,520 and I agree with you is that people do 619 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:36,930 jump right on the bandwagon that 620 00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:40,200 everything's extraterrestrial right so 621 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:44,040 what do you think about her you know 622 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:45,930 getting involved in this because of that 623 00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:49,800 report sure you know I have nothing but 624 00:25:55,670 --> 00:25:53,190 respect for the yeah I think she's she's 625 00:25:57,230 --> 00:25:55,680 definitely coming to this and she's 626 00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:57,240 definitely someone who I think you know 627 00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:00,570 the UFO community needs um you know 628 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:02,190 she's she's definitely very bright and 629 00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:05,210 she's definitely a good researcher and I 630 00:26:10,730 --> 00:26:07,620 think if we sort of the core of the 631 00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,740 question here is is you know the the ETH 632 00:26:14,330 --> 00:26:12,240 right the extra-terrestrial hypothesis 633 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:14,340 and why has the extra-terrestrial 634 00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:19,850 hypothesis become the go-to position for 635 00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:22,500 people within the UFO community but most 636 00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:23,670 people's in the UFO community there's 637 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:25,140 definitely people who sort of disagree 638 00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:27,210 with it and this is an interesting 639 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:29,760 question you know I I fundamentally 640 00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:33,510 don't know why extraterrestrials have 641 00:26:39,050 --> 00:26:37,230 become this sort of standard idea by 642 00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:39,060 which we say you know if UFO 643 00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:41,880 our intelligently controlled it they 644 00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:44,550 must be piloted then by you know beings 645 00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:46,020 like you and I they're just maybe 646 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:47,580 smarter and they look different and they 647 00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:49,170 have better technology that seems 648 00:26:53,150 --> 00:26:51,870 magical to us but you know we tend to 649 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:53,160 fall back on us and I have to be honest 650 00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:54,840 I think primarily it's a cultural thing 651 00:26:58,670 --> 00:26:57,150 I think primarily we believe our sorry 652 00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:58,680 the the UFO community in general 653 00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:01,260 believes in extraterrestrials because 654 00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:03,900 we've been fed that story for a long 655 00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:07,520 time you know Star Trek and Star Wars 656 00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:09,120 The X Files 657 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:12,150 you know alien all of these sort of 658 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:14,280 films and TV shows that have constantly 659 00:27:21,290 --> 00:27:18,210 kind of reinforced this idea even into 660 00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:21,300 earlier the 1920s 1930s and 1940s you 661 00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:23,070 know there were the comics and and the 662 00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:26,340 radio shows talking about you know space 663 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:30,360 aliens so this idea of beings from other 664 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:32,910 planets is something that you and I can 665 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:34,710 easily kind of talk about we can talk 666 00:27:39,290 --> 00:27:37,050 about it easily because they're like you 667 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:39,300 and me right we kind of can approach the 668 00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:44,130 ETH because you and I are you know made 669 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:45,840 of meat and we have free will an agency 670 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:48,090 just like they do and we have technology 671 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:51,510 just like they do and we are starting to 672 00:27:54,860 --> 00:27:53,370 go out into space and they've been doing 673 00:27:57,740 --> 00:27:54,870 it you know like it's easy for us to 674 00:28:00,650 --> 00:27:57,750 comprehend something else like us like 675 00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:00,660 ourselves however there's a lot of 676 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:02,540 people especially now especially younger 677 00:28:08,030 --> 00:28:05,130 UFO researchers who are looking at the 678 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:08,040 UFO question not from sort of the place 679 00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:10,530 of extraterrestrials but rather from 680 00:28:15,740 --> 00:28:14,040 something else something strange and 681 00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:15,750 I've said this before I believe 682 00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:18,750 something strange is going on what that 683 00:28:24,170 --> 00:28:22,560 strange is I have no idea but it 684 00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:24,180 definitely when you look at the evidence 685 00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:27,150 and you look at sort of all evidence 686 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:29,400 equally and that's hard to do sometimes 687 00:28:33,950 --> 00:28:31,530 because we often approach UFO cases from 688 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:33,960 kind of our own ideological baggage 689 00:28:39,770 --> 00:28:37,650 right some stuff sounds okay some stuff 690 00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:39,780 sounds totally nuts and what you 691 00:28:45,860 --> 00:28:41,400 shouldn't believe right if we kind of 692 00:28:48,170 --> 00:28:45,870 look at it all evenly the ETH doesn't 693 00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:48,180 fit it doesn't fit at all there's so 694 00:28:51,899 --> 00:28:50,220 many moments of high strangeness that 695 00:28:54,959 --> 00:28:51,909 don't jive 696 00:28:57,329 --> 00:28:54,969 why do we believe that it's a species of 697 00:28:58,919 --> 00:28:57,339 aliens or maybe a dozen species of 698 00:29:01,619 --> 00:28:58,929 aliens kind of doing stuff it doesn't 699 00:29:02,909 --> 00:29:01,629 make sense and and you know like I said 700 00:29:05,459 --> 00:29:02,919 I've talked about this many times before 701 00:29:10,229 --> 00:29:05,469 and in various blog posts as well as on 702 00:29:13,219 --> 00:29:10,239 other interviews I think we approach the 703 00:29:18,139 --> 00:29:13,229 UFO question from the ETH from culture 704 00:29:22,259 --> 00:29:18,149 but I think it's illegitimate well I I 705 00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:22,269 tend to think that I tend to think that 706 00:29:26,779 --> 00:29:24,429 there are at least part of it I have 707 00:29:30,329 --> 00:29:26,789 said on the show a number of times that 708 00:29:32,309 --> 00:29:30,339 you know it may be perhaps the UFOs are 709 00:29:35,159 --> 00:29:32,319 something we haven't even thought of yet 710 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:35,169 or you know can't even imagine you know 711 00:29:41,309 --> 00:29:37,119 and I think you know that's definitely a 712 00:29:43,309 --> 00:29:41,319 possibility but I also think of it yes I 713 00:29:46,139 --> 00:29:43,319 understand where you're coming from and 714 00:29:49,529 --> 00:29:46,149 you you probably get a lot of people and 715 00:29:51,869 --> 00:29:49,539 ufology kind of hammering you because of 716 00:29:54,329 --> 00:29:51,879 your thoughts about this I can imagine 717 00:29:58,139 --> 00:29:54,339 possibly but we can talk about that but 718 00:30:03,629 --> 00:29:58,149 I do think it's possible that at least 719 00:30:06,749 --> 00:30:03,639 some of the UFOs could be visiting us I 720 00:30:12,509 --> 00:30:06,759 think it makes sense but I also realized 721 00:30:15,419 --> 00:30:12,519 that we can't help but put ourselves you 722 00:30:17,729 --> 00:30:15,429 know humanize what is going on you know 723 00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:17,739 that's that's the problem we always 724 00:30:22,019 --> 00:30:20,289 think like well we would do it so why 725 00:30:24,029 --> 00:30:22,029 wouldn't they do it and you know if 726 00:30:26,309 --> 00:30:24,039 something develops on an in a different 727 00:30:28,199 --> 00:30:26,319 solar system or whatever you know 728 00:30:29,899 --> 00:30:28,209 millions of years ahead of us who knows 729 00:30:32,339 --> 00:30:29,909 what their way of thinking and acting 730 00:30:37,259 --> 00:30:32,349 you know are maybe they can't even 731 00:30:38,969 --> 00:30:37,269 conceive of what we can see above yeah 732 00:30:41,789 --> 00:30:38,979 this comes up often right this comes up 733 00:30:45,809 --> 00:30:41,799 comes up often in in the UFO narrative 734 00:30:47,639 --> 00:30:45,819 where you have these beings and they're 735 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:47,649 very similar to you and I right they're 736 00:30:52,529 --> 00:30:49,690 so similar in fact that we sort of have 737 00:30:54,989 --> 00:30:52,539 stories of hybridization you know and we 738 00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:54,999 have stories of you know sexual 739 00:30:59,399 --> 00:30:57,519 encounters between humans and you know 740 00:31:03,569 --> 00:30:59,409 these other these others whatever they 741 00:31:07,649 --> 00:31:03,579 are and not only that you know we often 742 00:31:09,809 --> 00:31:07,659 approach them in ins with human ethical 743 00:31:12,329 --> 00:31:09,819 terms right you know we we say that 744 00:31:14,369 --> 00:31:12,339 they're either peaceful or malevolent we 745 00:31:16,469 --> 00:31:14,379 even differentiate between the 746 00:31:18,809 --> 00:31:16,479 experiences we have with them right we 747 00:31:21,239 --> 00:31:18,819 we differentiate a contact experience 748 00:31:23,609 --> 00:31:21,249 which is usually benign peaceful 749 00:31:26,489 --> 00:31:23,619 they're here to impart a message upon 750 00:31:28,259 --> 00:31:26,499 someone this is a contact moment and 751 00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:28,269 then we have an abduction experience 752 00:31:31,949 --> 00:31:29,529 right this is the negative this is when 753 00:31:34,139 --> 00:31:31,959 we view them as evil beings they're 754 00:31:36,089 --> 00:31:34,149 malevolent they're here to test us and 755 00:31:38,849 --> 00:31:36,099 they're here to to prod us and pocus and 756 00:31:41,549 --> 00:31:38,859 do sort of horrible things and we apply 757 00:31:45,529 --> 00:31:41,559 this very human ethical system to 758 00:31:47,159 --> 00:31:45,539 something that isn't human and and 759 00:31:50,579 --> 00:31:47,169 fundamentally we need to ask ourselves 760 00:31:54,619 --> 00:31:50,589 why is this furthermore you know we need 761 00:31:57,569 --> 00:31:54,629 to understand I think that a lot of our 762 00:32:01,439 --> 00:31:57,579 anxieties a lot of our fears sort of as 763 00:32:04,709 --> 00:32:01,449 a culture we place upon them whatever 764 00:32:08,879 --> 00:32:04,719 they are at the other the alien or you 765 00:32:10,169 --> 00:32:08,889 know the intelligent sort of beings that 766 00:32:12,659 --> 00:32:10,179 without are often showing up in the 767 00:32:14,609 --> 00:32:12,669 narrative because they often come to us 768 00:32:16,769 --> 00:32:14,619 with sort of very human messages right 769 00:32:18,689 --> 00:32:16,779 and this has been happening since you 770 00:32:20,909 --> 00:32:18,699 know again the dawn of ufology with you 771 00:32:22,199 --> 00:32:20,919 know Adamski and all those guys you know 772 00:32:24,569 --> 00:32:22,209 they've been talking about space 773 00:32:26,639 --> 00:32:24,579 brothers and peace love and saving the 774 00:32:29,789 --> 00:32:26,649 planet from nuclear bombs and and global 775 00:32:31,709 --> 00:32:29,799 warming for a long time and a lot of 776 00:32:34,409 --> 00:32:31,719 this narrative sort of hasn't changed 777 00:32:36,209 --> 00:32:34,419 and and maybe it's because we haven't 778 00:32:39,869 --> 00:32:36,219 changed and we're still sort of afraid 779 00:32:43,199 --> 00:32:39,879 of those things but it makes you wonder 780 00:32:45,449 --> 00:32:43,209 why they would potentially sort of care 781 00:32:46,529 --> 00:32:45,459 about sort of those ideas and 782 00:32:48,479 --> 00:32:46,539 furthermore that they can even talk to 783 00:32:50,309 --> 00:32:48,489 us about those ideas you know if we make 784 00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:50,319 a lot of logical leaps and a lot of 785 00:32:53,789 --> 00:32:51,279 assumptions that they can even 786 00:32:56,969 --> 00:32:53,799 communicate with us that our brains can 787 00:32:59,069 --> 00:32:56,979 even jive in some sort of communicative 788 00:33:01,169 --> 00:32:59,079 sort of language or telepathy or 789 00:33:03,539 --> 00:33:01,179 whatever to suggest that they are gonna 790 00:33:07,829 --> 00:33:03,549 be anything like us is again you know 791 00:33:10,349 --> 00:33:07,839 very speculative and again if we go to 792 00:33:13,589 --> 00:33:10,359 the witnesses it's the witnesses sort of 793 00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:13,599 stories that create the scenario it's 794 00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:14,500 not other witnesses or 795 00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:15,670 lying and it's not that they're 796 00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:19,270 delusional these they are probably very 797 00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,060 much having real experiences however we 798 00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:23,440 have to remember that it's people 799 00:33:30,390 --> 00:33:25,990 interpreting experiences and and humans 800 00:33:32,130 --> 00:33:30,400 have this this sort of sort of safety 801 00:33:34,110 --> 00:33:32,140 switch that kind of whenever we 802 00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:34,120 experience anything we always interpret 803 00:33:39,090 --> 00:33:35,620 it in a way that makes sense to us right 804 00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:39,100 we always try to make everything make 805 00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:41,230 sense to us and this is perfectly normal 806 00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:44,830 resolution a safety it literally is yeah 807 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:47,440 I mean you know we're designed to to see 808 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:48,610 certain things we're designed to 809 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:50,080 understand certain things in certain 810 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:54,010 ways so you know we don't die and we 811 00:33:59,610 --> 00:33:56,710 often I think place our ideological 812 00:34:03,000 --> 00:33:59,620 selves upon these beings wherever they 813 00:34:05,370 --> 00:34:03,010 are and to suggest that they can easily 814 00:34:07,410 --> 00:34:05,380 communicate with us or anything that 815 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:07,420 they're even like us in any way I think 816 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:08,770 that is just sort of human 817 00:34:13,889 --> 00:34:11,610 interpretation being placed upon them 818 00:34:14,879 --> 00:34:13,899 whatever they are and this is why again 819 00:34:17,129 --> 00:34:14,889 I have problems with the 820 00:34:19,409 --> 00:34:17,139 extra-terrestrial hypothesis because if 821 00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:19,419 they were just people like you and I 822 00:34:25,139 --> 00:34:23,350 flying around the galaxy they would they 823 00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:25,149 wouldn't really function like you and I 824 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:26,830 they would be totally different follow a 825 00:34:32,430 --> 00:34:28,690 completely separate evolutionary path on 826 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:32,440 a totally separate evolutionary lineage 827 00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:34,570 and plant like you know to suggest that 828 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:35,200 they're you know 829 00:34:40,139 --> 00:34:38,169 reptiles for example in one narrative 830 00:34:40,649 --> 00:34:40,149 right the reptilians or whatever that's 831 00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:40,659 crazy 832 00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:42,190 I mean how do you know there's reptiles 833 00:34:45,869 --> 00:34:43,419 on other planets you know I mean like 834 00:34:47,790 --> 00:34:45,879 what reptiles evolved on earth they did 835 00:34:50,430 --> 00:34:47,800 not necessarily evolve anywhere else in 836 00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:50,440 the cosmos so again you know it's these 837 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:52,600 logical leaps the UFO community kind of 838 00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:55,330 takes and yeah I do definitely get flack 839 00:34:59,820 --> 00:34:56,590 for it I'm sure I'll get a couple 840 00:35:02,190 --> 00:34:59,830 interesting comments on this madness on 841 00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,200 this well when I can actually are in the 842 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:04,240 second hour I'm gonna you know toward 843 00:35:09,180 --> 00:35:06,310 the end I'm gonna ask if anyone wants to 844 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:09,190 call in and so they can do that right 845 00:35:13,650 --> 00:35:11,530 yeah it should be interesting if we get 846 00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:13,660 some calls so one of the one of the 847 00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:17,110 cases I think is totally amazing and a 848 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:19,270 friend of mine is creating a film on it 849 00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:23,050 is the Ariel school the Ruis and Bob 850 00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:28,300 Whedon that particular case is really 851 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:28,600 some 852 00:35:36,090 --> 00:35:31,570 thing and how would you think you would 853 00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:36,100 interpret what those children saw in any 854 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:38,100 other way you know in a different way 855 00:35:43,530 --> 00:35:41,290 right well I think you know and again 856 00:35:46,830 --> 00:35:43,540 I've I know a bit about the case and 857 00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,840 I've heard that one of the overarching 858 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:48,640 problems I guess with the case and 859 00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:49,810 there's what the debunkers have said I'm 860 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:51,160 not necessary green with them I'm just 861 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:53,290 sort of restating what they've stated is 862 00:35:59,210 --> 00:35:56,110 that some of the descriptions of what 863 00:36:01,830 --> 00:35:59,220 occurred and the entities or whatever 864 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:01,840 weren't sort of the same across the 865 00:36:08,910 --> 00:36:03,850 board right they there were variations 866 00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:08,920 in in the testimony of the kids so this 867 00:36:12,210 --> 00:36:11,110 leads me to believe sort of it mislead 868 00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:12,220 should lead anyone to believe one of two 869 00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:16,180 things one they didn't make it up but 870 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:18,190 they sort of imagined it and that's why 871 00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:20,170 there's variation in the story or two 872 00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,480 they something did happen something 873 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:24,880 legitimately happened but the the 874 00:36:29,970 --> 00:36:27,250 children interpreted what occurred there 875 00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:29,980 they they're where they came from their 876 00:36:34,530 --> 00:36:32,380 ideological backgrounds interpreted what 877 00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:34,540 occurred differently based upon them 878 00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:38,950 right very similarly to you know I'm 879 00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:40,300 sure you're else immigrants has seen the 880 00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:41,790 film the arrival 881 00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:44,280 certain that was really good certain 882 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:46,360 yeah certain characters in the film 883 00:36:52,350 --> 00:36:50,410 interpret the the Hebda pods in one way 884 00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:52,360 and some interpret them in the other way 885 00:36:56,010 --> 00:36:53,620 and the one who sort of interpret some 886 00:36:57,210 --> 00:36:56,020 of the best played by amy adams you know 887 00:36:59,340 --> 00:36:57,220 she learns to speak their language and 888 00:37:01,080 --> 00:36:59,350 she sort of sees them i suppose for what 889 00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:01,090 they actually are right she she can sort 890 00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:04,000 of move past the illusion of the Hebda 891 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:06,940 plot you know I think potentially in 892 00:37:14,940 --> 00:37:11,650 this aerial case in Zimbabwe I think 893 00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:14,950 what you have is an anomalous event and 894 00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:17,260 I think you have a group of people who 895 00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:19,870 approach that event from their own sort 896 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:22,660 of personal backgrounds and an end from 897 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:25,450 their own ideological place and 898 00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:29,110 interpret it differently so I think for 899 00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:30,520 me personally this is why you have a 900 00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:34,000 variation of what occurred or or what 901 00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:36,220 they saw and we see this in the UFO 902 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,070 narrative all the time you have dozens 903 00:37:42,210 --> 00:37:40,960 you have thousands and thousands and 904 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:42,220 thousands of 905 00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:45,110 abduction cases involving the grace you 906 00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:48,740 also have thousands of you know UFO 907 00:37:54,750 --> 00:37:51,620 cases where people you know see giant 908 00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:54,760 owls and bunny rabbits and eight-foot 909 00:38:00,280 --> 00:37:58,610 giant beings with horns and goblins I 910 00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:00,290 mean you know you have this insane 911 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:04,190 variation of UFO testimony to suggest 912 00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:08,450 that it's extraterrestrials is difficult 913 00:38:11,770 --> 00:38:10,460 because ultimately what's going on with 914 00:38:12,970 --> 00:38:11,780 the extraterrestrials how come sometimes 915 00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:12,980 they look like greys how come sometimes 916 00:38:16,030 --> 00:38:14,720 they look like owls sometimes look like 917 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:16,040 how come sometimes they look they're 918 00:38:21,070 --> 00:38:18,410 eight feet tall and you know ultimately 919 00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:21,080 what occurs is is you either have to 920 00:38:26,110 --> 00:38:23,600 then say well there's hundreds of races 921 00:38:27,550 --> 00:38:26,120 visiting or hundreds and hundreds 922 00:38:30,010 --> 00:38:27,560 because they all fly different ships - 923 00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,020 and in the 1800's they flew airships and 924 00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:33,200 you know made out of hydrogen and they 925 00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:35,120 spoke English and they needed water and 926 00:38:38,770 --> 00:38:37,070 gasoline to fly them and you know in the 927 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:38,780 1950s they had saucers and and in the 928 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:40,250 90s that triangles so you know 929 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:41,810 ultimately what's going on if it's 930 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:44,210 extraterrestrials and I personally think 931 00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:45,410 it's something else I personally think 932 00:38:47,950 --> 00:38:46,880 we're dealing with something intelligent 933 00:38:50,740 --> 00:38:47,960 I think we're dealing with some sort of 934 00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,750 strange phenomenon but our personal 935 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:52,640 interpretation of it is what makes it 936 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:54,890 sort of real and it's what gives it 937 00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:57,410 shake and the kids at the in Zimbabwe I 938 00:39:01,240 --> 00:38:58,520 think this is what happened 939 00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,250 I think they fundamentally saw something 940 00:39:04,810 --> 00:39:03,200 anomalous something strange happened and 941 00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:04,820 they interpret it in their own way 942 00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:06,320 well it'll be really interesting when 943 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:09,920 Randy gets that film completed because 944 00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:12,410 of a you know what he's basically done 945 00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:16,160 has interviewed these kids again today 946 00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,830 you know in their 20s and actually I'm 947 00:39:23,790 --> 00:39:20,240 gonna have one of them on the show with 948 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:23,800 him coming up I've already met rmally 949 00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:27,770 and she gave a talk out at the Phoenix 950 00:39:33,940 --> 00:39:31,550 UFO Congress oh two two years ago I 951 00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:33,950 guess it was and actually brought a lot 952 00:39:39,630 --> 00:39:36,320 of people to tears because it was such a 953 00:39:43,180 --> 00:39:39,640 an emotional you know situation for her 954 00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,190 what will be really interesting is to 955 00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:44,960 see the film when it's completed and 956 00:39:50,590 --> 00:39:48,680 hear all all what has happened to their 957 00:39:53,110 --> 00:39:50,600 lives as they moved on and what they 958 00:39:55,630 --> 00:39:53,120 actually think about and the differences 959 00:39:57,460 --> 00:39:55,640 and what each of them say 960 00:39:59,290 --> 00:39:57,470 what happened that day one of the things 961 00:40:00,820 --> 00:39:59,300 I think is really interesting and for 962 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:00,830 young children to come up with this on 963 00:40:05,470 --> 00:40:03,170 their own this kind of bizarre is a few 964 00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:05,480 of them were saying that you know the 965 00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:07,790 thoughts that they had had to do with us 966 00:40:11,740 --> 00:40:10,160 taking care of the earth you know that 967 00:40:13,780 --> 00:40:11,750 bad things can happen to the earth if we 968 00:40:16,810 --> 00:40:13,790 don't take care of it and you do hear 969 00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:16,820 that a lot you know but for a young 970 00:40:22,330 --> 00:40:19,520 child to say that that's uh that would 971 00:40:25,690 --> 00:40:22,340 just make that up would be very very 972 00:40:27,130 --> 00:40:25,700 strange so I agree and I don't 973 00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:27,140 necessarily think anything was made up I 974 00:40:33,490 --> 00:40:29,720 honestly think so the events in Zimbabwe 975 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:33,500 like I said something did happen I'm 976 00:40:37,660 --> 00:40:35,210 just not sure if it was you know aliens 977 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:37,670 from another planet and I and I think 978 00:40:43,630 --> 00:40:41,570 that's kind of where maybe I deviate a 979 00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:43,640 bit from sort of some of the others in 980 00:40:48,970 --> 00:40:47,480 within the UFO you know I you know the 981 00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:48,980 old saying I know what I saw you know 982 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:50,720 type of thing you know I had I had a 983 00:40:57,310 --> 00:40:54,290 saving that you know I don't think could 984 00:40:59,620 --> 00:40:57,320 be explained you know back in 2006 and 985 00:41:04,780 --> 00:40:59,630 in Monterrey in the Monterey area I was 986 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:04,790 in Carmel Valley California but also the 987 00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:07,850 one way it could be explained is you 988 00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:09,020 know it could be something it could have 989 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:10,760 been something military although it was 990 00:41:15,610 --> 00:41:13,130 a perfectly shaped round disc and the 991 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:15,620 thing that astonished me the most about 992 00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:17,630 the whole entire sighting and I had 993 00:41:20,860 --> 00:41:19,220 never heard anyone else say this is that 994 00:41:25,810 --> 00:41:20,870 the thing was moving without making any 995 00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:25,820 sound yet you know so when I say I know 996 00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:27,350 what I saw but I don't know if it was 997 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:30,020 extraterrestrial I don't have no idea 998 00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:32,210 what it was but I certainly know that I 999 00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:34,670 saw something what do you think people 1000 00:41:38,890 --> 00:41:37,040 are seeing what what is your thoughts on 1001 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:38,900 that if you don't think it's 1002 00:41:43,810 --> 00:41:42,410 extraterrestrial so okay so we're 1003 00:41:48,370 --> 00:41:43,820 getting to the we're getting to the core 1004 00:41:51,070 --> 00:41:48,380 of it now are we perfect you know 1005 00:41:54,130 --> 00:41:51,080 personally I don't know I can't ask your 1006 00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:54,140 question and you know I have to I have 1007 00:42:02,440 --> 00:41:57,140 to go with sorry let me let me start 1008 00:42:04,450 --> 00:42:02,450 over here I think I have to start with I 1009 00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:04,460 don't know and the main reason for that 1010 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:07,580 is because anyone who's sort of within 1011 00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:09,450 the you know UFO community says 1012 00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:13,230 this is exactly what's going on 100% is 1013 00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:15,180 either delusional or trying to sell you 1014 00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:19,980 something and that's and that's across 1015 00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:22,020 the board right if they say I know 1016 00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:23,910 exactly what's going on and here's what 1017 00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:28,740 it is your BS meter should be going 1018 00:42:35,210 --> 00:42:32,550 through the roof and so so let's start 1019 00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:35,220 there so anyone who thinks they know 1020 00:42:41,450 --> 00:42:37,560 what's going on you can visit my website 1021 00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:41,460 no yeah I think I think what we're 1022 00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:42,900 dealing with and and this is again 1023 00:42:46,339 --> 00:42:45,270 personal opinion I'm not an expert I 1024 00:42:49,550 --> 00:42:46,349 don't know 1025 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:49,560 all I all I have behind me to support me 1026 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:52,609 in this is what the witnesses say and 1027 00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:54,810 the fact that what the witnesses say 1028 00:43:00,260 --> 00:42:57,540 don't always doesn't always jive the 1029 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:00,270 fact that the the significant pile of 1030 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:03,450 evidence out there signing reports 1031 00:43:07,609 --> 00:43:05,490 especially and witness encounters that 1032 00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:07,619 do not fit in with the extra-terrestrial 1033 00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:10,560 hypothesis so I'm kind of going on on 1034 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:12,780 pure witness reports and I'm weighing 1035 00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:16,290 them evenly I'm not you know there's 1036 00:43:19,309 --> 00:43:17,760 gonna be hoaxes and there's gonna be 1037 00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,319 people who are delusional there's always 1038 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:21,839 going to be that but you still have a 1039 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:24,210 huge chunk a huge core of people who 1040 00:43:30,319 --> 00:43:26,250 have had strange experiences and they do 1041 00:43:33,740 --> 00:43:30,329 not sort of coalesce into this nice tidy 1042 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:33,750 package of its et I think what we're 1043 00:43:38,329 --> 00:43:36,210 dealing with is something that you know 1044 00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:38,339 we've potentially as a species have been 1045 00:43:43,849 --> 00:43:42,000 dealing with for a long time I've made a 1046 00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:43,859 joke to someone once I've become you 1047 00:43:50,930 --> 00:43:48,569 know Union in my old age and I believe 1048 00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:50,940 that what we have sort of have been 1049 00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:53,670 dealing with for a long time is what 1050 00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:56,220 Carl Jung has often described as a sort 1051 00:44:02,500 --> 00:43:58,290 of a universal consciousness a sort of 1052 00:44:06,319 --> 00:44:02,510 an intelligence that exists within our 1053 00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:06,329 collective minds as a species we are all 1054 00:44:12,380 --> 00:44:10,020 sort of part of the same tapestry and 1055 00:44:14,780 --> 00:44:12,390 and there are other things within this 1056 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:14,790 tapestry that also exist they're not 1057 00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,170 necessarily evil they're not necessarily 1058 00:44:21,290 --> 00:44:18,560 good that they just exist 1059 00:44:22,910 --> 00:44:21,300 when we interact with these things 1060 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:22,920 whatever they are 1061 00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,090 we our own sort of concepts of good and 1062 00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:30,000 bad our own concepts of right and wrong 1063 00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:32,730 our own ideological background is what 1064 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:35,880 makes them real they're sort of out 1065 00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:40,410 there we give them you know physical 1066 00:44:47,450 --> 00:44:42,600 presence and we give them the ability to 1067 00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:47,460 interact with us we see this sort of in 1068 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:49,560 a couple ways um often talks about in 1069 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:51,450 its in a psychology the idea of 1070 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:53,130 archetypes the fact that it doesn't 1071 00:44:57,590 --> 00:44:54,930 matter whether you are born in North 1072 00:44:59,720 --> 00:44:57,600 America or whether you were born in in 1073 00:45:02,030 --> 00:44:59,730 the Middle Eastern Africa or wherever 1074 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:02,040 and it doesn't matter if if these 1075 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:03,450 cultures were born thousands of years 1076 00:45:06,140 --> 00:45:04,710 ago or these people were born thousands 1077 00:45:10,270 --> 00:45:06,150 of years ago or they're born today we 1078 00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:10,280 all have a fundamental understanding of 1079 00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,180 of some messages and ideologies the good 1080 00:45:20,990 --> 00:45:17,520 guys are always sort of similar the bad 1081 00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:21,000 guys are always sort of similar we also 1082 00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:22,470 interpret things differently we always 1083 00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:24,270 provide or sorry we always interpret 1084 00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:26,700 things similarly certain animals we 1085 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:29,400 often interpret as being wise or good or 1086 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:30,930 evil or as symbols of death or whatever 1087 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:32,730 and this is sort of universal this is a 1088 00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:34,650 universal idea this idea of the 1089 00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:37,560 archetype and young often talks about 1090 00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:39,840 that the reason why these archetypes are 1091 00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:41,460 all similar for everyone on this planet 1092 00:45:44,570 --> 00:45:43,980 is because we're all sort of tied in 1093 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:44,580 together 1094 00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:46,290 there is something that's binding us 1095 00:45:51,220 --> 00:45:47,910 together some sort of consciousness and 1096 00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:51,230 and like I've said sort of just now 1097 00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:54,030 there is something present within this 1098 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:55,860 consciousness like I said it has some 1099 00:46:00,020 --> 00:45:57,450 sort of intelligence and when we 1100 00:46:02,780 --> 00:46:00,030 interact with it it sort of comes 1101 00:46:04,310 --> 00:46:02,790 forward in some way it's not necessarily 1102 00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:04,320 extraterrestrial it's not from another 1103 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:08,670 planet it's just not human and I think 1104 00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:10,290 that this is sort of what we're dealing 1105 00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:12,060 with and philosophers have been talking 1106 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:13,500 about this for a long time this is a new 1107 00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:16,050 Aristotle talked about this thousands 1108 00:46:20,330 --> 00:46:18,780 and thousands of years ago and so you 1109 00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:20,340 know we're not dealing with anything 1110 00:46:25,610 --> 00:46:21,960 strange or new in the philosophical 1111 00:46:27,380 --> 00:46:25,620 world but I think in the UFO world I 1112 00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:27,390 think this you know young kind of 1113 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:28,950 brought it up and I think it's hasn't 1114 00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:31,170 really gotten the same traction that DTH 1115 00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:33,870 has and that's why the ETH is definitely 1116 00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:35,160 sort of the popular discourse right I 1117 00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:36,990 think this sort of ties in 1118 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:40,440 with other paranormal events I have a 1119 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:43,770 friend Paulino who talks about sort of 1120 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:47,610 the multiverse you know having somebody 1121 00:46:53,060 --> 00:46:49,650 to do with like crossovers and things 1122 00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:53,070 like that and this is interesting what 1123 00:46:59,540 --> 00:46:57,780 you're saying about I'm not human right 1124 00:47:02,260 --> 00:46:59,550 you know and I think that this often 1125 00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:02,270 comes up right this often comes up with 1126 00:47:07,609 --> 00:47:04,680 you know the UFO question and and we 1127 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:07,619 often you know we often lump UFOs in 1128 00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,330 with you know ghosts and Bigfoot and 1129 00:47:12,380 --> 00:47:10,800 cryptozoology and all these other things 1130 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:12,390 and there's definitely a lot of people 1131 00:47:15,890 --> 00:47:13,530 within the oppo community who sort of 1132 00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:15,900 buy into this this idea that it's all 1133 00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:19,920 connected um you know I'm not sure again 1134 00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:21,420 I can't speak for it because I don't 1135 00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:22,800 necessarily know what this thing is this 1136 00:47:28,850 --> 00:47:24,960 is just a sort of a personal opinion 1137 00:47:31,490 --> 00:47:28,860 that I come to sort of via reading and 1138 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:31,500 research you know being human I'm sure 1139 00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:33,450 my pain will probably change you know 1140 00:47:36,620 --> 00:47:35,310 within a few years because I bump into 1141 00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:36,630 some other piece of evidence and blows 1142 00:47:43,130 --> 00:47:38,760 my mind and suddenly you know it's 1143 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:43,140 aliens you know you know I don't know 1144 00:47:47,570 --> 00:47:45,810 what I hesitate to say sort of it's all 1145 00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:47,580 linked together sort of with paranormal 1146 00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:49,710 stuff do I think humans have been 1147 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:51,510 interacting with this intelligence 1148 00:47:56,060 --> 00:47:53,970 whatever it is for a long time yes is it 1149 00:47:57,380 --> 00:47:56,070 sort of ancient aliens that type of big 1150 00:47:59,050 --> 00:47:57,390 build of pyramids no I don't know I 1151 00:48:03,109 --> 00:47:59,060 don't think it's that I think it's more 1152 00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:03,119 when humans have strange moments happen 1153 00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:05,100 to them anomalous events strange 1154 00:48:10,820 --> 00:48:08,640 synchronicities when when we have odd 1155 00:48:14,290 --> 00:48:10,830 experiences of deja vu or we think 1156 00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:14,300 something's watching us or we have 1157 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:17,640 moments where we believe we're where 1158 00:48:22,780 --> 00:48:19,410 like you say being visited you know by 1159 00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,790 something I think this is what that 1160 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:24,900 intelligence is I think that's what 1161 00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:27,060 we're interacting with a UFO sighting is 1162 00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:29,430 simply our interpretation of that 1163 00:48:35,690 --> 00:48:32,790 intelligence from our cultural 1164 00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:35,700 standpoint five hundred years ago people 1165 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:38,220 didn't see you know black triangle UFOs 1166 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:39,690 flying to the sky and and 1167 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:41,850 extraterrestrials with needles and 1168 00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,410 strange devices 1169 00:48:46,609 --> 00:48:45,359 you know technological devices they 1170 00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,619 would have seen something else they 1171 00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:48,000 would have seen fairies or they would 1172 00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:49,470 have seen you know elves or they would 1173 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:50,520 have seen 1174 00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:52,890 you know some other creatures that they 1175 00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:55,260 would have been able to explain via 1176 00:49:00,440 --> 00:48:57,210 their own sort of ideological and 1177 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:00,450 cultural and social background today you 1178 00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:02,850 know we live in the 21st century you 1179 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:06,420 know we see you know flying discs and 1180 00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:08,850 stuff like that because we come from 1181 00:49:14,420 --> 00:49:11,310 that cultural place nobody sees fairies 1182 00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:14,430 anymore really nobody sees elves anymore 1183 00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,520 really more people have UFO sightings 1184 00:49:23,630 --> 00:49:19,920 than probably any other sighting of any 1185 00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,640 other paranormal or sort of anomalous 1186 00:49:28,990 --> 00:49:24,960 thing I think there's probably more UFO 1187 00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:29,000 sightings than Bigfoot sightings so I 1188 00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:31,110 think we're just sort of approaching 1189 00:49:34,820 --> 00:49:32,760 this intelligence from our own place and 1190 00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:34,830 we're placing our interpretation upon it 1191 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:37,740 and making it seem real or making it 1192 00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:39,450 seem physical like a flying saucer or a 1193 00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:41,880 black triangle or an alien or a gray or 1194 00:49:46,370 --> 00:49:43,950 reptilian or whatever and I think it 1195 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:46,380 just we just come from our own place and 1196 00:49:52,820 --> 00:49:48,810 we place it upon them other other 1197 00:49:55,370 --> 00:49:52,830 studies that are following along this 1198 00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:55,380 this line your line of thinking are 1199 00:50:00,140 --> 00:49:56,910 people doing any type of study because 1200 00:50:02,810 --> 00:50:00,150 this this would be a big deal you know 1201 00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:02,820 yeah you know Jacques Vallee sort of 1202 00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:05,220 does go on this route right he would 1203 00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:06,600 argue he sort of I think one of the 1204 00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:08,430 biggest proponents of this case that 1205 00:50:11,780 --> 00:50:10,140 it's not extraterrestrials Jacques 1206 00:50:13,310 --> 00:50:11,790 Vallee would probably say it's something 1207 00:50:14,450 --> 00:50:13,320 that's been around for a long time that 1208 00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:14,460 we've been dealing with and he often 1209 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:17,310 links the UFO situation to sort of 1210 00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:20,490 ancient cases of like I said elves and 1211 00:50:25,180 --> 00:50:22,320 fairies and and you know goblins and 1212 00:50:27,770 --> 00:50:25,190 whatever that people used to experience 1213 00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:27,780 when it comes to actual sort of sign to 1214 00:50:34,820 --> 00:50:31,920 the cases you know I'm not sure what you 1215 00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:34,830 can scientifically track here because 1216 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:37,110 ultimately how do you prove any of this 1217 00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:40,970 how do you go about and test for this 1218 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:43,520 one thing I'll say is there's one 1219 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:46,770 gentleman by the name of Jeff Richmond 1220 00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:49,770 he writes a great blog you can google 1221 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:51,420 him Jeff Richmond and he has a project 1222 00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:53,850 called project oculus and what he's 1223 00:50:57,950 --> 00:50:56,730 basically done is he believes sort of he 1224 00:51:00,860 --> 00:50:57,960 doesn't actually believe what I believe 1225 00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:00,870 but he sort of unbelieving that it's not 1226 00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:03,220 extraterrestrials it's something else 1227 00:51:08,250 --> 00:51:04,960 and when he's basically done is he's 1228 00:51:13,410 --> 00:51:08,260 wired his entire house with cameras and 1229 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:13,420 he purposefully places himself in sort 1230 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:16,090 of these marginal states he makes 1231 00:51:20,250 --> 00:51:18,130 himself uncomfortable he throws off his 1232 00:51:23,250 --> 00:51:20,260 schedule purposefully so he wakes up at 1233 00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:23,260 odd hours and he doesn't get proper 1234 00:51:26,370 --> 00:51:24,609 night's sleep and he does all these 1235 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:26,380 strange things to keep his life 1236 00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:29,290 off-balance and what he believes is if 1237 00:51:34,170 --> 00:51:31,119 you keep your life off-balance if you 1238 00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:34,180 don't live by sort of a steady 1239 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:37,119 you know nine-to-five kind of grind you 1240 00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:39,490 are more open to having anomalous 1241 00:51:43,770 --> 00:51:41,470 experiences so what he's done is he's 1242 00:51:45,690 --> 00:51:43,780 purposely placed himself in this sort of 1243 00:51:48,510 --> 00:51:45,700 lifestyle and then he's basically 1244 00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:48,520 recording his whole life on camera 1245 00:51:52,740 --> 00:51:49,990 inside his home and he's caught some 1246 00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:52,750 interesting you know anomalous things 1247 00:51:56,430 --> 00:51:55,359 inside his own home and I think you know 1248 00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:56,440 you can go to his website you can just 1249 00:51:59,880 --> 00:51:58,090 like I said you can google Jeff Richmond 1250 00:52:01,320 --> 00:51:59,890 or you can Google project oculus and you 1251 00:52:02,910 --> 00:52:01,330 can definitely see some of his evidence 1252 00:52:05,070 --> 00:52:02,920 that he's picked up but it's an 1253 00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:05,080 interesting idea because what it does is 1254 00:52:09,570 --> 00:52:07,540 it sort of flies in the face of the 1255 00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,580 extra-terrestrial hypothesis an 1256 00:52:12,839 --> 00:52:11,200 extraterrestrial being or an 1257 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:12,849 extraterrestrial intelligence you know 1258 00:52:16,530 --> 00:52:15,250 wouldn't care whether you're 1259 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:16,540 uncomfortable or whether you're 1260 00:52:21,450 --> 00:52:18,970 comfortable in your daily life they 1261 00:52:23,460 --> 00:52:21,460 would simply go about their business and 1262 00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:23,470 you would go about yours and if the tube 1263 00:52:27,570 --> 00:52:25,089 you bumped into each other you know 1264 00:52:29,010 --> 00:52:27,580 that's the way it happens Richmond 1265 00:52:30,750 --> 00:52:29,020 doesn't actually believe this in project 1266 00:52:33,420 --> 00:52:30,760 oculus has attempted to kind of prove 1267 00:52:35,130 --> 00:52:33,430 this in a sense this idea that people 1268 00:52:38,339 --> 00:52:35,140 who place themselves or people who are 1269 00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:38,349 in these sort of marginal uncomfortable 1270 00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:41,500 states have more experiences with 1271 00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:43,900 anomalous activity it's not necessary 1272 00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,240 flying saucers and UFOs but it's a whole 1273 00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,400 bunch of other stuff as well it ties in 1274 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:50,800 UFOs for sure but it also ties in other 1275 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:53,650 paranormal phenomena so I think this is 1276 00:52:57,570 --> 00:52:55,570 sort of one of the few things that 1277 00:52:59,460 --> 00:52:57,580 that's actually happening sort of to try 1278 00:53:01,260 --> 00:52:59,470 and be objective I think this is more of 1279 00:53:03,690 --> 00:53:01,270 a philosophical project for me than it 1280 00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:03,700 is a scientific one I'm not a scientist 1281 00:53:09,390 --> 00:53:06,880 by any stretch of the imagination all I 1282 00:53:11,490 --> 00:53:09,400 have a sort of rationality and logic and 1283 00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:11,500 reasoning behind me and unfortunately 1284 00:53:16,590 --> 00:53:13,750 you know for me the ETH doesn't stack up 1285 00:53:18,350 --> 00:53:16,600 however sort of this other is I 1286 00:53:20,340 --> 00:53:18,360 idea of an other intelligence out there 1287 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:20,350 not necessarily a lien but just 1288 00:53:27,150 --> 00:53:24,370 something and does I know there's been a 1289 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:27,160 couple of studies with abductees through 1290 00:53:33,020 --> 00:53:29,410 the free foundation or now it's called 1291 00:53:38,450 --> 00:53:33,030 the Edgar Mitchell Foundation as well as 1292 00:53:41,130 --> 00:53:38,460 Cathy mark I'm gonna try to give 1293 00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:41,140 Kathleen Mardon 1294 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:44,500 yes and Denise toner they've also done 1295 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:48,130 some studies on the commonalities of 1296 00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:50,290 these people that have been you know 1297 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:53,110 claimed to have been abducted and I'm 1298 00:53:59,790 --> 00:53:56,050 wondering I'll have to speak with Kathy 1299 00:54:02,070 --> 00:53:59,800 and find out if what you're talking 1300 00:54:04,470 --> 00:54:02,080 about a disruptive life I wonder if 1301 00:54:10,020 --> 00:54:04,480 that's part of what's going on with the 1302 00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:10,030 commonality of them you know potentially 1303 00:54:14,190 --> 00:54:12,310 it could be I don't know much about you 1304 00:54:15,780 --> 00:54:14,200 know the Edgar Mitchell Foundation and 1305 00:54:18,330 --> 00:54:15,790 I've heard of Kathy Martin but I don't 1306 00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:18,340 really know like I've heard of her but 1307 00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:19,660 I've never really read much of her work 1308 00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:26,800 um I think what I don't want to sort of 1309 00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:28,180 interpret things and sort of 1310 00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:30,160 purposefully sort of you know derail the 1311 00:54:34,290 --> 00:54:32,140 conversation but ultimately again I kind 1312 00:54:36,270 --> 00:54:34,300 of get do I I get sort of icky feelings 1313 00:54:40,410 --> 00:54:36,280 and when people sort of again make 1314 00:54:44,010 --> 00:54:40,420 claims to know things and say this is 1315 00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:44,020 100% what's going on and then sort of 1316 00:54:49,290 --> 00:54:47,560 try and sell it to me so you know I'm 1317 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:49,300 gonna sort of reserve judgment on this 1318 00:54:54,690 --> 00:54:52,210 like I said you know my theory or sort 1319 00:54:57,630 --> 00:54:54,700 of my belief is just that it's a theory 1320 00:54:59,100 --> 00:54:57,640 and a belief and and I'm trying to kind 1321 00:55:00,900 --> 00:54:59,110 of figure out ways of proving it but 1322 00:55:02,820 --> 00:55:00,910 again you know the beauty of being sort 1323 00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:02,830 of a philosopher not a scientist is I 1324 00:55:07,530 --> 00:55:04,920 can change my mind really any time 1325 00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:07,540 because I can just compartmentalize my 1326 00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:09,430 own sort of existence and my own 1327 00:55:18,270 --> 00:55:12,550 thoughts and sort of philosophize in 1328 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:18,280 different directions yeah like I said I 1329 00:55:22,530 --> 00:55:20,050 I don't know enough about their work to 1330 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:22,540 sort of go much further than just saying 1331 00:55:25,770 --> 00:55:24,370 that it you know if their work is if 1332 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:25,780 their work is free and their work is 1333 00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:27,370 just sort of here's all of our 1334 00:55:30,180 --> 00:55:28,990 information have at it 1335 00:55:31,590 --> 00:55:30,190 perfect yeah 1336 00:55:35,180 --> 00:55:31,600 that's basically what they're doing but 1337 00:55:39,090 --> 00:55:35,190 they're what they wanted to do was 1338 00:55:41,130 --> 00:55:39,100 anonymously track all the information to 1339 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:41,140 see what was in common with these people 1340 00:55:45,330 --> 00:55:43,090 that were claiming right and you know my 1341 00:55:48,210 --> 00:55:45,340 only question is this I wonder what if 1342 00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:48,220 they had say less than you know the 1343 00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:51,280 normal sleep or you know if they were 1344 00:55:57,180 --> 00:55:53,710 disrupted in other ways you know because 1345 00:56:00,330 --> 00:55:57,190 that you do hear about you know my son 1346 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:00,340 has insomnia a lot and he's had times 1347 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:03,010 where he's had not night terrors but 1348 00:56:07,620 --> 00:56:05,890 he'll have where he can't move and you 1349 00:56:10,290 --> 00:56:07,630 know he'll he'll think he sees something 1350 00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:10,300 you know at the foot of the bed yeah you 1351 00:56:13,950 --> 00:56:12,310 know that's similar to I'm not saying 1352 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:13,960 that's what these people that are 1353 00:56:18,780 --> 00:56:16,210 claimed to be abducted or having but 1354 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:18,790 that is something that does happen when 1355 00:56:25,860 --> 00:56:20,890 you you know when you deprive yourself 1356 00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:25,870 from sleep of course and again this is 1357 00:56:29,850 --> 00:56:28,510 you know ancient right like humans have 1358 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:29,860 been having this problem for a long time 1359 00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:34,570 and in fact sleep paralysis and insomnia 1360 00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:37,750 and and having night terrors right this 1361 00:56:43,260 --> 00:56:40,180 is this is sort of again existed in 1362 00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:43,270 folklore again across cultures not just 1363 00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:45,790 here in the West but you know in Africa 1364 00:56:50,730 --> 00:56:48,070 and Asia and the Middle East you know 1365 00:56:54,090 --> 00:56:50,740 people often ascribed night terrors and 1366 00:56:58,350 --> 00:56:54,100 sleep paralysis in in ancient cultures 1367 00:57:03,620 --> 00:56:58,360 and and cultures around the globe to 1368 00:57:06,180 --> 00:57:03,630 being some kind of access point to 1369 00:57:09,540 --> 00:57:06,190 another reality or another version of 1370 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:09,550 reality I know in like I'm Canadian so 1371 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:11,410 in Canada we have you know a significant 1372 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:13,450 indigenous a significant indigenous 1373 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:17,890 population and one you know aspect of a 1374 00:57:23,370 --> 00:57:20,650 spiritual journey is to purposefully not 1375 00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:23,380 sleep is to purposely stay awake for a 1376 00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:25,510 long time and place yourself into 1377 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:28,240 incredibly uncomfortable situations to 1378 00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:31,170 deprive yourself of sort of comfort and 1379 00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:34,270 even sort of you know self-harm at times 1380 00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:38,830 where you know often you know young men 1381 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:41,640 or young women and especially sort of 1382 00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:44,050 more shamanistic practice 1383 00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:46,740 would be literally cut yourself and and 1384 00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:51,040 burn yourself and the idea is to as you 1385 00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:53,440 place yourself in more positions of 1386 00:57:59,760 --> 00:57:57,810 discomfort your mind opens itself to 1387 00:58:02,580 --> 00:57:59,770 communicating with what they would refer 1388 00:58:06,270 --> 00:58:02,590 to as the spirit world and this practice 1389 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:06,280 still occurs you know sweat lodges are 1390 00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,850 common practice you know in in in Canada 1391 00:58:13,890 --> 00:58:11,440 where I'm from for integers people where 1392 00:58:17,070 --> 00:58:13,900 you literally go into a tent and if you 1393 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:17,080 just like sit in a hot tent for hours 1394 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:19,330 and hours and hours and the idea is as 1395 00:58:25,530 --> 00:58:22,570 you become uncomfortable um you know the 1396 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:25,540 broader world opens up to you there's 1397 00:58:28,620 --> 00:58:27,250 something to be said for this I mean 1398 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:28,630 cultures have been doing this for a long 1399 00:58:34,020 --> 00:58:31,210 time and there's probably a good reason 1400 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:34,030 for it it probably does open the mind to 1401 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:36,610 something beyond just you know the 1402 00:58:40,650 --> 00:58:38,770 everyday reality we sort of exist in the 1403 00:58:44,610 --> 00:58:40,660 nine-to-five driving to Starbucks and 1404 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:44,620 get your coffee reality so you know I 1405 00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:46,810 think your son and they think that 1406 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:49,210 project oculus and potentially you know 1407 00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:52,090 the agreement foundation and Kathy 1408 00:58:55,890 --> 00:58:53,950 Martin's work if that is the case you 1409 00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:55,900 know if there are links here you know 1410 00:59:00,450 --> 00:58:57,370 maybe we're dealing with something maybe 1411 00:59:02,910 --> 00:59:00,460 we can potentially find some evidence to 1412 00:59:07,350 --> 00:59:02,920 support the fact that people who are in 1413 00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:07,360 these marginal states these these places 1414 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:09,760 of discomfort in their lives are more 1415 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:11,770 open to strange experience it's 1416 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:14,290 definitely a place to go so along your 1417 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:16,810 thoughts where do you think the 1418 00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:18,010 Rendlesham forest 1419 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:20,110 fits in as far as you know I'm talking 1420 00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:22,690 about the integrity of the witnesses of 1421 00:59:27,180 --> 00:59:24,790 the people like right on Colonel halt 1422 00:59:30,270 --> 00:59:27,190 who absolutely did not want this thing 1423 00:59:33,540 --> 00:59:30,280 to get out at all and you listen to him 1424 00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:33,550 talk today and it's pretty solid you 1425 00:59:38,580 --> 00:59:36,430 know what he saw not not to say he knew 1426 00:59:41,460 --> 00:59:38,590 what he saw but what do you think of 1427 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:41,470 cases like that and and how he could 1428 00:59:48,270 --> 00:59:43,450 have interpreted it or they could have 1429 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:50,440 you know retinosyn is a tough one to 1430 00:59:54,730 --> 00:59:52,610 talk about it's a tough one to Jaco talk 1431 00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,740 look it's at the end of the day I'm you 1432 00:59:58,210 --> 00:59:56,240 know I'm still a bit of a skeptic and 1433 01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,220 I'm not saying that Rendlesham didn't 1434 01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:01,040 happen I don't say that at all I think 1435 01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:02,240 that there's a lot of issues with the 1436 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:04,910 Rendlesham case from the wick standpoint 1437 01:00:11,470 --> 01:00:09,250 some witnesses claim that you know they 1438 01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:11,480 interacted with alien beings and they 1439 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:13,280 saw them and they got into it like I 1440 01:00:17,530 --> 01:00:15,530 started triangular object and when they 1441 01:00:20,140 --> 01:00:17,540 came out of one rather and then some 1442 01:00:21,580 --> 01:00:20,150 witnesses you know say you know I just 1443 01:00:23,650 --> 01:00:21,590 sort of saw this light and you know 1444 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:23,660 there's there's a lot of variation I 1445 01:00:29,170 --> 01:00:27,050 think from witness testimony as for 1446 01:00:31,660 --> 01:00:29,180 Colonel halt himself who I think is 1447 01:00:34,990 --> 01:00:31,670 probably one of the most reliable 1448 01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,000 witnesses in the case and I think he 1449 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:36,880 definitely witnessed something anomalous 1450 01:00:43,330 --> 01:00:40,210 you know again I don't know what it was 1451 01:00:45,610 --> 01:00:43,340 the light flying around and the beams of 1452 01:00:47,110 --> 01:00:45,620 light coming down and all that you know 1453 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:47,120 the debunkers would say it's a 1454 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:50,650 lighthouse and I would argue it's not 1455 01:00:55,870 --> 01:00:52,850 because you know I know I confuse those 1456 01:00:59,650 --> 01:00:55,880 things but ultimately I think you have 1457 01:01:03,910 --> 01:00:59,660 someone who walked into a strange 1458 01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:03,920 situation and was unable to explain the 1459 01:01:08,740 --> 01:01:07,310 reality of what was going on and on his 1460 01:01:11,050 --> 01:01:08,750 tape recorder he did the best he could 1461 01:01:15,310 --> 01:01:11,060 and even today as he talks about 1462 01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:15,320 Rendlesham he's doing the best he can to 1463 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:17,510 interpret something strange and 1464 01:01:22,510 --> 01:01:19,010 anomalous that that is sort of 1465 01:01:26,650 --> 01:01:22,520 objectively occurring from his own 1466 01:01:29,950 --> 01:01:26,660 position from his own human flawed 1467 01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:29,960 background and and when we experience 1468 01:01:33,370 --> 01:01:31,520 anything strange when you experience 1469 01:01:34,860 --> 01:01:33,380 anything anomalous or anything even 1470 01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:34,870 scary or frightening 1471 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:37,070 like you said before right it's a matter 1472 01:01:44,170 --> 01:01:39,650 of evolution we sort of defer to things 1473 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:44,180 we understand I don't know if Colonel 1474 01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:46,010 halt saw an extraterrestrial spacecraft 1475 01:01:53,770 --> 01:01:49,250 I don't I wasn't there no even if I was 1476 01:01:57,580 --> 01:01:53,780 there I probably wouldn't still know all 1477 01:01:59,820 --> 01:01:57,590 I do know is that he came to that 1478 01:02:02,310 --> 01:01:59,830 experience from his own 1479 01:02:04,270 --> 01:02:02,320 [Music] 1480 01:02:06,820 --> 01:02:04,280 from his background his military 1481 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:06,830 training from being a colonel in the 1482 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:09,650 military during the Cold War during 1483 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:12,650 tense times with you know the Soviet 1484 01:02:20,740 --> 01:02:15,650 Union he's going to interpret that 1485 01:02:23,050 --> 01:02:20,750 object from that background and it would 1486 01:02:25,060 --> 01:02:23,060 be interesting to to sort of see if we 1487 01:02:27,070 --> 01:02:25,070 could almost time-travel in a sense to 1488 01:02:29,020 --> 01:02:27,080 to bring someone from the 21st you know 1489 01:02:31,470 --> 01:02:29,030 from today to see that to be at that 1490 01:02:33,700 --> 01:02:31,480 same expense a moment and to see that 1491 01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:33,710 how would it be interpreted would it be 1492 01:02:37,690 --> 01:02:35,690 interpreted differently I I think it 1493 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:37,700 would be I think it's a it's a totally 1494 01:02:42,220 --> 01:02:39,770 different it depends on the person I 1495 01:02:43,540 --> 01:02:42,230 think to interpret the UFO question and 1496 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:43,550 so you trip with the UFO sighting rather 1497 01:02:51,010 --> 01:02:49,250 and and any answer to to that question 1498 01:02:55,060 --> 01:02:51,020 is gonna sort of be subjective to that 1499 01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:55,070 person at least for now until we can 1500 01:03:00,550 --> 01:02:56,720 sort of let you say study this in a more 1501 01:03:02,380 --> 01:03:00,560 scientific way so yeah again I don't 1502 01:03:05,230 --> 01:03:02,390 want to sort of derail the conversation 1503 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:05,240 but the Rendlesham forest is is 1504 01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:09,290 something I'm relatively not skeptical 1505 01:03:12,730 --> 01:03:11,390 about but there's issues I think with 1506 01:03:14,530 --> 01:03:12,740 some of the witnesses that you know 1507 01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:14,540 definitely can't be well there's 1508 01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:16,610 definitely been a lot of infighting and 1509 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:24,710 there's been signaling you know this 1510 01:03:29,230 --> 01:03:26,690 information you know binary code and 1511 01:03:30,490 --> 01:03:29,240 stuff like that I'm gonna act repentance 1512 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:30,500 and I'm actually gonna have him on the 1513 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:30,770 show 1514 01:03:36,010 --> 01:03:33,250 eventually he says he'll be on 1515 01:03:39,340 --> 01:03:36,020 eventually and you know that part is 1516 01:03:40,930 --> 01:03:39,350 really difficult to swallow but I you 1517 01:03:43,810 --> 01:03:40,940 know and the part about drugging is 1518 01:03:46,300 --> 01:03:43,820 really interesting I don't know the 1519 01:03:49,660 --> 01:03:46,310 aftermath of the whole situation now 1520 01:03:51,940 --> 01:03:49,670 when I asked last time I had Chuck hold 1521 01:03:53,590 --> 01:03:51,950 on I asked some straight-out us of what 1522 01:03:56,290 --> 01:03:53,600 do you what do you interpret it what do 1523 01:03:58,450 --> 01:03:56,300 you think it was and he said ranks are 1524 01:04:00,970 --> 01:03:58,460 terrestrial he have 100 percent thinks 1525 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:00,980 that's what it was and I think it's you 1526 01:04:06,180 --> 01:04:02,810 know I understand where you're coming 1527 01:04:08,260 --> 01:04:06,190 from it would be a hard thing to explain 1528 01:04:10,300 --> 01:04:08,270 otherwise you know he saw this thing 1529 01:04:11,770 --> 01:04:10,310 that looked like an eyeball bouncing 1530 01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:11,780 around the woods you know dropping like 1531 01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:12,910 Magnum 1532 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:15,760 Magne very strange and then burst into 1533 01:04:21,870 --> 01:04:18,730 five lights and I also have a friend who 1534 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:21,880 saw a UFO burst into five lights you 1535 01:04:26,670 --> 01:04:24,970 know I mean it's it really is very 1536 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:26,680 strange what's that 1537 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:29,290 so the question sorry so the question is 1538 01:04:34,650 --> 01:04:32,170 why do they think like how does that so 1539 01:04:36,420 --> 01:04:34,660 seeing that light sort of move into five 1540 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:36,430 shapes and move around and then the sort 1541 01:04:38,970 --> 01:04:37,570 of the lights pouring out like it like 1542 01:04:42,410 --> 01:04:38,980 that laser the magma or whatever was 1543 01:04:45,060 --> 01:04:42,420 what is the link then from that to 1544 01:04:47,790 --> 01:04:45,070 extraterrestrials what is what what 1545 01:04:50,340 --> 01:04:47,800 makes a person make that logical leap 1546 01:04:52,830 --> 01:04:50,350 from seeing an anomalous series of 1547 01:04:54,570 --> 01:04:52,840 lights in the sky to automatically 1548 01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:54,580 aliens run out well I think the thing 1549 01:05:00,300 --> 01:04:57,370 that like that is what I guess I think 1550 01:05:02,130 --> 01:05:00,310 the thing when that was overhead and it 1551 01:05:04,050 --> 01:05:02,140 shot down that beam of light a very 1552 01:05:06,570 --> 01:05:04,060 strange beam of light by the way he said 1553 01:05:08,460 --> 01:05:06,580 it wasn't a normal it didn't react like 1554 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:08,470 a normal being beam of light would just 1555 01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:10,090 go down on the ground this was very 1556 01:05:15,810 --> 01:05:12,040 strange the way it came down and 1557 01:05:18,090 --> 01:05:15,820 everything I think that more than 1558 01:05:20,820 --> 01:05:18,100 anything else what was probably what 1559 01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:20,830 made him decide that it had to be 1560 01:05:26,550 --> 01:05:22,930 something not from this world that's my 1561 01:05:27,630 --> 01:05:26,560 guess sure and and and I can I can 1562 01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:27,640 understand like I can I can definitely 1563 01:05:33,390 --> 01:05:30,220 say okay it's behaving strangely it's 1564 01:05:36,060 --> 01:05:33,400 not behaving like a man-made craft which 1565 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:36,070 is fine but again seeing lights in the 1566 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:39,250 sky does not necessarily sort of 1567 01:05:45,060 --> 01:05:42,610 correlate to it being then a spaceship 1568 01:05:48,090 --> 01:05:45,070 from another planet it correlates to 1569 01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:48,100 seeing something odd in the sky to being 1570 01:05:54,030 --> 01:05:50,550 a strange event an anomalous event but 1571 01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:54,040 you know the issue here is is why is it 1572 01:05:59,580 --> 01:05:57,520 always a lian's from other planet and 1573 01:06:01,980 --> 01:05:59,590 and not potentially something else what 1574 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:01,990 if it's some intelligence that's not 1575 01:06:07,740 --> 01:06:03,850 necessarily alien interacting with the 1576 01:06:12,380 --> 01:06:07,750 colonel and his men what if it's their 1577 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:12,390 own personal sort of I don't know 1578 01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:16,210 archetypal anxieties kind of pushing 1579 01:06:20,810 --> 01:06:17,740 themselves outward and becoming real as 1580 01:06:24,270 --> 01:06:20,820 young would potentially say what if it's 1581 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:24,280 I don't know god I could speculate all 1582 01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:26,050 day right we could say 1583 01:06:33,330 --> 01:06:32,110 and I don't know some ancient beings on 1584 01:06:35,130 --> 01:06:33,340 this planet that existed here for years 1585 01:06:37,380 --> 01:06:35,140 how do I know it's not angels or God or 1586 01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:37,390 anything right like to suggest that it's 1587 01:06:41,820 --> 01:06:38,880 automatically aliens from another planet 1588 01:06:43,710 --> 01:06:41,830 versus sort of anything else that it 1589 01:06:46,050 --> 01:06:43,720 could potentially be that's quite the 1590 01:06:47,730 --> 01:06:46,060 leap in logic right did you sort of 1591 01:06:51,330 --> 01:06:47,740 understand what I don't what am i did I 1592 01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:51,340 think that you know most of the time 1593 01:06:55,890 --> 01:06:54,240 when someone just absolutely thinks it's 1594 01:06:58,350 --> 01:06:55,900 extraterrestrial right off the bat 1595 01:07:00,090 --> 01:06:58,360 without really thinking about it but I 1596 01:07:02,190 --> 01:07:00,100 think he's really he's had a long time 1597 01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:02,200 to think about this and I think that's 1598 01:07:07,740 --> 01:07:05,650 you know his conclusion now now a couple 1599 01:07:10,050 --> 01:07:07,750 of things what about when something's 1600 01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:10,060 tracked on radar and you know it's going 1601 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:12,160 20,000 miles an hour and Ellison stops 1602 01:07:16,650 --> 01:07:14,890 and goes another direction how can that 1603 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:16,660 you know when it's that's actually a 1604 01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:20,770 data right there and right what how 1605 01:07:28,170 --> 01:07:23,920 could that be interpreted differently in 1606 01:07:32,450 --> 01:07:28,180 your in your mind yeah sure and and this 1607 01:07:36,510 --> 01:07:34,170 I've had I was having this conversation 1608 01:07:38,430 --> 01:07:36,520 with Greg Bishop who runs the radio 1609 01:07:40,350 --> 01:07:38,440 mysterious radio Mysterio's a podcast 1610 01:07:42,510 --> 01:07:40,360 and and he and I were talking about he 1611 01:07:44,190 --> 01:07:42,520 has a theory that he's sort of playing 1612 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:44,200 with called the co-creation hypothesis 1613 01:07:53,070 --> 01:07:48,090 and he and he believes that whatever 1614 01:07:55,260 --> 01:07:53,080 that other is we bring sort of 99% of 1615 01:07:56,550 --> 01:07:55,270 our interpretation to it so I I did ask 1616 01:07:57,810 --> 01:07:56,560 him and there's actually I think we did 1617 01:08:00,120 --> 01:07:57,820 a podcast on this is an interview where 1618 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:00,130 I sort of asking you know what what do 1619 01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:01,450 you say about the radar idea like how 1620 01:08:05,790 --> 01:08:04,450 does this thing become show up on radar 1621 01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:05,800 moving twenty thousand miles an hour 1622 01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:08,200 yeah and you know we sort of threw it 1623 01:08:13,350 --> 01:08:09,520 back and forth and when we were coming 1624 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:13,360 up with different theories and I came up 1625 01:08:18,210 --> 01:08:17,290 with this idea that it's it's it's sort 1626 01:08:19,620 --> 01:08:18,220 of like a shapeshifter 1627 01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:19,630 and I have a blog post actually called 1628 01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:21,850 involuntary shapeshifters but and where 1629 01:08:25,559 --> 01:08:23,230 I talk about this and I expand upon this 1630 01:08:27,300 --> 01:08:25,569 idea of you know let's say we're dealing 1631 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:27,310 with and I'm just speculating here I'm 1632 01:08:31,559 --> 01:08:29,170 just sort of spitballing on my own sort 1633 01:08:33,270 --> 01:08:31,569 of crazy theory let's say we're dealing 1634 01:08:35,630 --> 01:08:33,280 with some sort of intelligence that 1635 01:08:39,660 --> 01:08:35,640 exists out there around us sort of 1636 01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,670 wherever it is but it's not alien 1637 01:08:42,150 --> 01:08:40,960 it's not from another planet it's not 1638 01:08:44,519 --> 01:08:42,160 extraterrestrials it's just an 1639 01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:44,529 intelligence that sort of part of some 1640 01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:46,270 of the consciousness of humanity and 1641 01:08:52,530 --> 01:08:50,650 that's saying we sort of bump into it my 1642 01:08:55,769 --> 01:08:52,540 theory is that this intelligence has 1643 01:08:58,410 --> 01:08:55,779 evolved in a way that it's now forced to 1644 01:09:00,660 --> 01:08:58,420 sort of adapt itself to our 1645 01:09:03,539 --> 01:09:00,670 interpretation of it so if I'm sitting 1646 01:09:05,249 --> 01:09:03,549 there and I'm flying a plane and then 1647 01:09:08,700 --> 01:09:05,259 suddenly this you know thing comes 1648 01:09:10,410 --> 01:09:08,710 screaming past me what I had a moment 1649 01:09:12,209 --> 01:09:10,420 with was this anomalous thing this 1650 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:12,219 anomalous other this intelligent other 1651 01:09:17,820 --> 01:09:15,250 whatever it is and the way I interpreted 1652 01:09:21,390 --> 01:09:17,830 that 99% of co-creation that I brought 1653 01:09:23,220 --> 01:09:21,400 to it was a craft flying past me at 1654 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:23,230 20,000 miles an hour and then it 1655 01:09:28,620 --> 01:09:24,850 automatically stops in zigs in another 1656 01:09:31,709 --> 01:09:28,630 direction what essentially I've done is 1657 01:09:34,499 --> 01:09:31,719 I've created the reality for that thing 1658 01:09:37,470 --> 01:09:34,509 I have made it what it is 1659 01:09:40,410 --> 01:09:37,480 it exists in a subjective sense whatever 1660 01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:40,420 it is I don't know because I'm not it it 1661 01:09:45,539 --> 01:09:43,330 just it's out there when I see it when I 1662 01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:45,549 interact with it in some way when I have 1663 01:09:48,990 --> 01:09:46,810 my experience with it 1664 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:49,000 it then takes shape its shape shifts 1665 01:09:55,470 --> 01:09:53,770 into what I want it to be and then it 1666 01:09:57,450 --> 01:09:55,480 shows up on radar for example you know 1667 01:10:01,260 --> 01:09:57,460 at some airfield and you know Missouri 1668 01:10:02,939 --> 01:10:01,270 or whatever I think ultimately this you 1669 01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:02,949 know we played with this idea and Greg 1670 01:10:05,220 --> 01:10:03,610 didn't love it 1671 01:10:07,950 --> 01:10:05,230 he said that's silly and I said I know 1672 01:10:10,050 --> 01:10:07,960 it's philosophy it's all silly and I 1673 01:10:11,580 --> 01:10:10,060 don't necessarily believe it I'm just 1674 01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:11,590 sort of saying you know this potentially 1675 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:13,510 could be how it occurs it could be that 1676 01:10:19,530 --> 01:10:15,130 whatever this intelligence is it's 1677 01:10:21,209 --> 01:10:19,540 adapted itself to become the reality we 1678 01:10:24,830 --> 01:10:21,219 make for it when it bumps into something 1679 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:24,840 intelligent like you and I it's sort of 1680 01:10:31,740 --> 01:10:29,290 coalesces into the thing we interpret it 1681 01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:31,750 to be what we ideologically sort of make 1682 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:34,449 it and in this case it becomes a 1683 01:10:38,910 --> 01:10:36,850 physical object tracked on radar at 1684 01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,920 20,000 miles an hour which you know zigs 1685 01:10:44,820 --> 01:10:40,960 and zags and in sort of defying the laws 1686 01:10:47,790 --> 01:10:44,830 of physics it's it's a leap for sure in 1687 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:47,800 a bit of theory but it does fill holes 1688 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:50,050 that the extra-terrestrial hypothesis 1689 01:10:55,020 --> 01:10:51,690 leaves open 1690 01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:55,030 which is how come then you know alien 1691 01:10:57,690 --> 01:10:56,290 spacecraft don't show up on radar all 1692 01:10:58,800 --> 01:10:57,700 the time because there's UFO sightings 1693 01:11:02,070 --> 01:10:58,810 all the time one would think these would 1694 01:11:03,810 --> 01:11:02,080 be on radar 24/7 but they're not 1695 01:11:05,610 --> 01:11:03,820 sometimes they defy radar right so how 1696 01:11:07,050 --> 01:11:05,620 come some alien craft defy radar and 1697 01:11:08,910 --> 01:11:07,060 some don't 1698 01:11:10,890 --> 01:11:08,920 what is the the reason for this what's 1699 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:10,900 the logic to flick the switch 1700 01:11:17,010 --> 01:11:14,890 you know Yeah right like yeah yeah yeah 1701 01:11:20,580 --> 01:11:17,020 damn it Larry Tournament yeah Harry's 1702 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:20,590 fault yeah yeah that's right yeah you 1703 01:11:23,310 --> 01:11:21,730 know and that's the thing right you know 1704 01:11:24,540 --> 01:11:23,320 we kind of been speculated can't say 1705 01:11:28,260 --> 01:11:24,550 well they must have forgot to turn the 1706 01:11:30,660 --> 01:11:28,270 switch you know and now yes maybe and 1707 01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:30,670 then you know it's kind of like the same 1708 01:11:36,420 --> 01:11:34,000 you know along the lines of us owes you 1709 01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:36,430 know people are saying things go into 1710 01:11:43,050 --> 01:11:41,440 the water it's strange I understand 1711 01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:43,060 where you're where you coming from and 1712 01:11:54,930 --> 01:11:48,130 all that but also people interpretate 1713 01:11:58,650 --> 01:11:54,940 interpreting a UFO as a UFO do you think 1714 01:12:01,890 --> 01:11:58,660 this all began like in the night say the 1715 01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:01,900 modern UFO you were talking about 1947 1716 01:12:06,810 --> 01:12:03,610 you know there were tons of sightings 1717 01:12:08,850 --> 01:12:06,820 that year in the 1952 it was going crazy 1718 01:12:14,340 --> 01:12:08,860 yeah so you do you think it's part of 1719 01:12:15,570 --> 01:12:14,350 like a a cultural mass hysteria you know 1720 01:12:17,670 --> 01:12:15,580 no I don't actually think it's a it's 1721 01:12:19,620 --> 01:12:17,680 part of a mass hysteria do I think that 1722 01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:19,630 you know potentially you have nuns of 1723 01:12:24,150 --> 01:12:21,280 people thinking about it does that add 1724 01:12:27,630 --> 01:12:24,160 some fuel to the fire of whatever this 1725 01:12:28,709 --> 01:12:27,640 thing is baby again and you know like I 1726 01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:28,719 don't want to come off saying that this 1727 01:12:32,970 --> 01:12:31,120 is sort of what i 100% think is going on 1728 01:12:35,010 --> 01:12:32,980 I really don't know what's going on this 1729 01:12:37,020 --> 01:12:35,020 is just sort of a theory I've been sort 1730 01:12:40,140 --> 01:12:37,030 of playing around with it's kind of like 1731 01:12:42,510 --> 01:12:40,150 what I believe but I don't want to I'm 1732 01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:42,520 not gonna sort of stick my you know my 1733 01:12:46,650 --> 01:12:44,110 flag into it and say this is a hundred 1734 01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:46,660 percent you know my belief system 1735 01:12:51,690 --> 01:12:50,230 because I I can't I have no evidence to 1736 01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:51,700 support this belief system apart from 1737 01:13:00,479 --> 01:12:54,610 some you know basic philosophy I think 1738 01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:00,489 flaps do provide an interesting I do I 1739 01:13:04,410 --> 01:13:02,050 think that provide a very interesting 1740 01:13:05,970 --> 01:13:04,420 kind of motivation potentially for 1741 01:13:10,140 --> 01:13:05,980 whatever this is 1742 01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:10,150 maybe it sort of tends to show itself to 1743 01:13:15,629 --> 01:13:12,270 a whole lot of people at certain times 1744 01:13:18,180 --> 01:13:15,639 or maybe mass hysteria is what brings it 1745 01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:18,190 forward maybe a whole bunch of people 1746 01:13:23,419 --> 01:13:20,940 being uncomfortable makes it manifest 1747 01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:23,429 this is an interesting idea to play with 1748 01:13:33,090 --> 01:13:27,370 there you know 1967 was a major flap 1749 01:13:34,649 --> 01:13:33,100 here like you said 52:47 I think 2006 1750 01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:34,659 actually was a major flap here recently 1751 01:13:39,290 --> 01:13:36,880 what you have is potentially a 1752 01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:39,300 significant amount of sort of discomfort 1753 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:42,730 globally or or at least you know in a 1754 01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,290 country or in a nation or within you 1755 01:13:50,580 --> 01:13:46,480 know like a hemisphere and potentially 1756 01:13:54,379 --> 01:13:50,590 this anxiety is causing this thing to 1757 01:14:02,419 --> 01:13:54,389 manifest itself it's it can sense our 1758 01:14:05,910 --> 01:14:02,429 fear it can sense our sort of collective 1759 01:14:08,490 --> 01:14:05,920 discomfort and you know if project 1760 01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:08,500 oculus and Jeff fritzman are right it's 1761 01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:10,870 on its discomfort that makes it come out 1762 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:13,330 right so everyone's uncomfortable if 1763 01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:18,130 there's sort of mass anxiety maybe flaps 1764 01:14:22,620 --> 01:14:20,290 occur for that reason it's an 1765 01:14:22,919 --> 01:14:22,630 interesting episode it that way that's 1766 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:22,929 great 1767 01:14:28,770 --> 01:14:26,650 Wow a revelation right here live right 1768 01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,780 like Eureka right no there's a blog post 1769 01:14:31,620 --> 01:14:29,920 gonna happen right now because that one 1770 01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:31,630 yes someone on the chatroom wants to 1771 01:14:34,379 --> 01:14:33,070 know why you think you're a UFO expert 1772 01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:34,389 but I'm gonna say that you're probably 1773 01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:37,510 gonna say you're not oh I am certainly 1774 01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:39,040 not a Yoho expert there's there's no 1775 01:14:45,209 --> 01:14:41,050 such thing as UFO expert I I would I 1776 01:14:47,580 --> 01:14:45,219 would I would ask anyone if anyone who 1777 01:14:50,610 --> 01:14:47,590 claims to be US expert out ask them sort 1778 01:14:53,490 --> 01:14:50,620 of what gives them the the insight to 1779 01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:53,500 you know understand what's actually 1780 01:14:57,870 --> 01:14:55,090 happening out there because certainly 1781 01:14:59,640 --> 01:14:57,880 nowhere is I agree with you in that all 1782 01:15:03,030 --> 01:14:59,650 right why do you think the Air Force 1783 01:15:05,580 --> 01:15:03,040 would have taken this serious back you 1784 01:15:08,490 --> 01:15:05,590 know to start project sign and then and 1785 01:15:12,370 --> 01:15:08,500 then project Bluebook Jen why would they 1786 01:15:16,270 --> 01:15:14,950 um you know an unfortunate I can't speak 1787 01:15:18,970 --> 01:15:16,280 for the airport I think what you had 1788 01:15:22,270 --> 01:15:18,980 though was you probably had a mixing of 1789 01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:22,280 a lot of anxieties right you would have 1790 01:15:25,570 --> 01:15:24,080 had I'm sure the air force 1791 01:15:26,740 --> 01:15:25,580 there was probably a point where the Air 1792 01:15:28,870 --> 01:15:26,750 Force was concerned that this was 1793 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:28,880 potentially you know Soviet technology 1794 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:30,770 and then and then obviously they learned 1795 01:15:35,919 --> 01:15:33,170 it wasn't but reports are still coming 1796 01:15:40,090 --> 01:15:35,929 in and I'm sure you had a you know a lot 1797 01:15:42,939 --> 01:15:40,100 of people who were in the military 1798 01:15:47,740 --> 01:15:42,949 concerned about you know some sort of 1799 01:15:48,939 --> 01:15:47,750 foreign aggressor and even concerned 1800 01:15:50,530 --> 01:15:48,949 about alien aggressors like why not 1801 01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:50,540 right I mean it was the 1940s and 1802 01:15:54,090 --> 01:15:52,610 fifties you know people believed strange 1803 01:15:59,200 --> 01:15:54,100 things all the time 1804 01:16:01,360 --> 01:15:59,210 III think where the UFO question sort of 1805 01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:01,370 became important and I think white still 1806 01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:02,570 is important is that people are still 1807 01:16:07,209 --> 01:16:04,250 seeing things and I think this is sort 1808 01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:07,219 of the key situation or the key sort of 1809 01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:09,650 the key point here people still have 1810 01:16:15,580 --> 01:16:12,650 anomalous experiences if the 21st 1811 01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:15,590 century and what we know now from what 1812 01:16:24,010 --> 01:16:21,170 we knew in 1947 is is exponentially 1813 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:24,020 expanding we know significantly more 1814 01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:25,730 about the universe today and then we 1815 01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:27,170 knew in 1947 in fact what we knew in 1816 01:16:31,180 --> 01:16:29,210 1947 is laughable compared to what we 1817 01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:31,190 sort of know about the cosmos and what 1818 01:16:37,500 --> 01:16:34,550 we know about you know physics and what 1819 01:16:39,790 --> 01:16:37,510 we know about chemistry and everything 1820 01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:39,800 but people still have sightings people 1821 01:16:44,350 --> 01:16:41,510 still have anomalous experiences even 1822 01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:44,360 with our technological know-how and even 1823 01:16:50,110 --> 01:16:47,210 with our ability to understand the world 1824 01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:50,120 around us people still have weird 1825 01:16:55,930 --> 01:16:53,449 moments where this thing lands in my 1826 01:16:58,600 --> 01:16:55,940 backyard a door opens and a giant 1827 01:17:01,000 --> 01:16:58,610 four-foot owl walks out and looks at me 1828 01:17:03,010 --> 01:17:01,010 like people still have these odd moments 1829 01:17:05,260 --> 01:17:03,020 and they record them and they contact 1830 01:17:08,530 --> 01:17:05,270 MUFON and they tell people about them 1831 01:17:10,810 --> 01:17:08,540 and they write it on Facebook and they 1832 01:17:12,340 --> 01:17:10,820 go on podcast like this and and they 1833 01:17:15,129 --> 01:17:12,350 talk about these odd experiences they 1834 01:17:16,959 --> 01:17:15,139 have and in the 21st century right 1835 01:17:19,300 --> 01:17:16,969 people would normally kind of like hey 1836 01:17:20,830 --> 01:17:19,310 listen I I don't know what I saw I saw 1837 01:17:24,129 --> 01:17:20,840 four foot owl it was the strangest thing 1838 01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:24,139 in the world you know I'm just gonna 1839 01:17:28,420 --> 01:17:26,000 write this one up but we don't 1840 01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:28,430 don't for some reason and we don't 1841 01:17:31,210 --> 01:17:30,080 because these experiences I think are 1842 01:17:32,650 --> 01:17:31,220 happening to people people are 1843 01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:32,660 legitimately experiencing these 1844 01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:34,250 anomalous events and they can't explain 1845 01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:37,130 them and they know four-foot owls don't 1846 01:17:43,390 --> 01:17:38,450 walk out of spaceships sort of that 1847 01:17:45,550 --> 01:17:43,400 landed in their yard but it still seems 1848 01:17:47,020 --> 01:17:45,560 to be happening and and and not only 1849 01:17:49,450 --> 01:17:47,030 that you know and you can replace 4-foot 1850 01:17:51,220 --> 01:17:49,460 owl with a grey or a reptilian or an 1851 01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:51,230 insectoid or whatever you want to call 1852 01:17:54,580 --> 01:17:52,010 it right whatever 1853 01:17:56,590 --> 01:17:54,590 you know variation of extraterrestrials 1854 01:18:00,490 --> 01:17:56,600 you know we have now in the narrative of 1855 01:18:01,780 --> 01:18:00,500 the UFO discourse but people still have 1856 01:18:03,550 --> 01:18:01,790 strange experiences and I think this is 1857 01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:03,560 key I think this I think we need to go 1858 01:18:09,340 --> 01:18:06,050 back to the witness accounts here and I 1859 01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:09,350 think we need to let go of all of that 1860 01:18:13,900 --> 01:18:12,410 ideological baggage we bring to the UFO 1861 01:18:16,270 --> 01:18:13,910 question whether we believe it's 1862 01:18:17,650 --> 01:18:16,280 extraterrestrials or not we need to let 1863 01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:17,660 go of all that and we need to approach 1864 01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:19,730 the UFO question from the standpoint of 1865 01:18:23,230 --> 01:18:21,050 the witness because ultimately they're 1866 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:23,240 the one on the ground having that 1867 01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:26,090 experience and it's and it's difficult 1868 01:18:31,300 --> 01:18:28,130 and it's difficult because when we deal 1869 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:31,310 with a UFO case we walk into it 1870 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:34,250 with what we think happened and what we 1871 01:18:39,070 --> 01:18:36,530 think is okay to believe in and what we 1872 01:18:40,810 --> 01:18:39,080 think is crazy to believe in when 1873 01:18:43,420 --> 01:18:40,820 somebody says I was in my backyard and 1874 01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:43,430 this this this this thing descended and 1875 01:18:48,310 --> 01:18:46,370 an out walked a gray some people are 1876 01:18:49,810 --> 01:18:48,320 more willing to believe that then 1877 01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:49,820 someone who says a four-foot I will 1878 01:18:54,460 --> 01:18:52,490 walked up the big question is why what 1879 01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:54,470 evidence does there exist that Gray's 1880 01:19:01,360 --> 01:18:57,050 exist versus four-foot owls that walk up 1881 01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:01,370 spaceships is it less odd maybe is it 1882 01:19:05,710 --> 01:19:03,290 because we're just used to hearing about 1883 01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:05,720 greys and not four foot out I don't know 1884 01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:08,090 but ultimately I would say we need to 1885 01:19:13,330 --> 01:19:10,190 look at every case kind of evenly and 1886 01:19:15,070 --> 01:19:13,340 equally we can't give certain cases sort 1887 01:19:19,390 --> 01:19:15,080 of more credit especially in high 1888 01:19:20,740 --> 01:19:19,400 strangeness than others because again 1889 01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:20,750 there's no evidence to support any of it 1890 01:19:26,110 --> 01:19:22,850 right so why are some cases more 1891 01:19:27,970 --> 01:19:26,120 legitimate there's no evidence versus 1892 01:19:31,450 --> 01:19:27,980 you know we we call some you know 1893 01:19:32,860 --> 01:19:31,460 illegitimate or or or delusional but 1894 01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:32,870 again they still have the same amount of 1895 01:19:36,940 --> 01:19:34,910 evidence zero to support them apart from 1896 01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:36,950 a story right well when it comes to 1897 01:19:42,670 --> 01:19:40,130 witnesses and how they interpret 1898 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:42,680 how do you how does like a mass sighting 1899 01:19:46,390 --> 01:19:44,810 with multiple witnesses that are 1900 01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:46,400 basically saying they're seeing the same 1901 01:19:52,450 --> 01:19:50,690 thing how would that work for how people 1902 01:19:56,730 --> 01:19:52,460 interpret things according to your 1903 01:19:59,800 --> 01:19:56,740 thoughts Riley my crackpot theory yeah 1904 01:20:01,450 --> 01:19:59,810 you know this this this gets touched on 1905 01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:01,460 sort of again and up in that article 1906 01:20:05,710 --> 01:20:03,050 involuntary shape involuntary 1907 01:20:07,690 --> 01:20:05,720 shapeshifters and Greg Bishop and I 1908 01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:07,700 talked about this and this touched on 1909 01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:10,130 the same thing sort of concerning the 1910 01:20:16,090 --> 01:20:13,280 radar hit is you know if a group of 1911 01:20:20,050 --> 01:20:16,100 people are standing there whatever this 1912 01:20:21,970 --> 01:20:20,060 is it sort of chooses or or it is forced 1913 01:20:24,220 --> 01:20:21,980 to take on some sort of physical form 1914 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:24,230 whether it's lights in the sky whether 1915 01:20:27,850 --> 01:20:26,330 it's a flying saucer whether it's a 1916 01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:27,860 black triangle or whether it's a gray or 1917 01:20:33,370 --> 01:20:31,250 whether it's a four-foot owl it kind of 1918 01:20:35,830 --> 01:20:33,380 just does and then it becomes that thing 1919 01:20:36,670 --> 01:20:35,840 and then everyone's kind of looking at 1920 01:20:38,710 --> 01:20:36,680 it 1921 01:20:41,830 --> 01:20:38,720 so you know take Phoenix lights which is 1922 01:20:44,530 --> 01:20:41,840 this you know beautiful UFO case you 1923 01:20:46,030 --> 01:20:44,540 know still shrouded in mystery and I 1924 01:20:49,210 --> 01:20:46,040 love it I think Phoenix license is one 1925 01:20:50,710 --> 01:20:49,220 of my favorite you invoke cases you have 1926 01:20:52,420 --> 01:20:50,720 you have hundreds and hundreds and 1927 01:20:54,820 --> 01:20:52,430 hundreds of people seeing the same thing 1928 01:20:58,840 --> 01:20:54,830 right they see this sort of triangular 1929 01:21:03,790 --> 01:20:58,850 massive you know several mile long 1930 01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:03,800 object in the sky according to my I'm 1931 01:21:08,230 --> 01:21:05,090 gonna call hypothesis according to my 1932 01:21:12,970 --> 01:21:08,240 hypothesis which is just my crazy 1933 01:21:15,010 --> 01:21:12,980 crackpot theory what you have I think is 1934 01:21:18,130 --> 01:21:15,020 whatever that anomaly was whatever that 1935 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:18,140 intelligent other sort of manifesting 1936 01:21:24,790 --> 01:21:22,090 itself as it kind of went with what 1937 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:24,800 either one person sort of was 1938 01:21:28,540 --> 01:21:26,810 interpreting or sort of the collective 1939 01:21:31,090 --> 01:21:28,550 was interpreting again if we if we buy 1940 01:21:33,730 --> 01:21:31,100 into the idea that our unconscious is 1941 01:21:36,460 --> 01:21:33,740 collective our unconscious is unified 1942 01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:36,470 which is what Carl Jung would say and 1943 01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:40,130 and others would say as well that our 1944 01:21:44,650 --> 01:21:42,320 unconscious minds are all tied into one 1945 01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:44,660 another whatever occurred in Phoenix 1946 01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:48,050 that thing tied into whatever the 1947 01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:50,090 collective unconsciousness was of that 1948 01:21:57,310 --> 01:21:53,120 town of time and became 1949 01:22:01,690 --> 01:21:57,320 that several mile-long triangular shape 1950 01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:01,700 object that would be sort of my take on 1951 01:22:05,380 --> 01:22:03,410 co-creation with Greg Bishop and now 1952 01:22:07,390 --> 01:22:05,390 sort of be my take on my sort of a 1953 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:07,400 collective unconscious Union hypothesis 1954 01:22:12,310 --> 01:22:09,890 of what's going on 1955 01:22:12,730 --> 01:22:12,320 do I know that's what happened of course 1956 01:22:14,740 --> 01:22:12,740 not 1957 01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:14,750 hell it could have been you know alien 1958 01:22:19,390 --> 01:22:16,570 species from another planet but 1959 01:22:21,430 --> 01:22:19,400 ultimately this is sort of my 1960 01:22:23,710 --> 01:22:21,440 interpretation at least right now on 1961 01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:23,720 what I think occurred in Phoenix we get 1962 01:22:27,730 --> 01:22:25,570 the same thing in Chicago O'Hare in 2006 1963 01:22:29,950 --> 01:22:27,740 where you have you know a whole bunch of 1964 01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:29,960 people see this disc descend kind of 1965 01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:31,760 hover over the airport for a while and 1966 01:22:35,530 --> 01:22:33,110 then it kind of shoots back up into the 1967 01:22:39,610 --> 01:22:35,540 sky right again whatever this anomaly 1968 01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:39,620 was it sort of tied into the collective 1969 01:22:45,220 --> 01:22:42,320 unconsciousness of the people present 1970 01:22:47,290 --> 01:22:45,230 and it became what that collective 1971 01:22:49,300 --> 01:22:47,300 unconsciousness needed it to become the 1972 01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:49,310 reality was shaped for it by that 1973 01:22:52,810 --> 01:22:51,350 collective unconsciousness I sort of 1974 01:22:54,610 --> 01:22:52,820 extrapolate upon this this is tough to 1975 01:22:56,140 --> 01:22:54,620 do sort of in in a you know to our 1976 01:22:58,810 --> 01:22:56,150 podcast but there's an article I wrote 1977 01:23:00,310 --> 01:22:58,820 on my on my blog that you can sort of 1978 01:23:01,450 --> 01:23:00,320 read up where I kind of get into the 1979 01:23:03,250 --> 01:23:01,460 details here a little bit more about 1980 01:23:05,230 --> 01:23:03,260 Jungian psychology and and what you 1981 01:23:06,910 --> 01:23:05,240 meant when he when he was talking about 1982 01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:06,920 the collective unconscious and how we 1983 01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:08,770 all sort of are tied into it together 1984 01:23:14,710 --> 01:23:13,130 it's a little mystical but it's it's an 1985 01:23:16,630 --> 01:23:14,720 interesting way of looking at the UFO 1986 01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:16,640 question and it definitely like I said 1987 01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:17,840 fills a few gaps that the 1988 01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:20,930 extra-terrestrial hypothesis leaves now 1989 01:23:25,980 --> 01:23:23,090 you hear you hear sometimes that there's 1990 01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:25,990 like energy connecting all of us in 1991 01:23:32,740 --> 01:23:31,280 exactly and let's go ahead yeah yeah you 1992 01:23:34,060 --> 01:23:32,750 know and that's kind of we hear this 1993 01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:34,070 sort of in paranormal circles right or 1994 01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:35,600 we hear this we see this UFO conferences 1995 01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:37,450 right people selling crystals and stuff 1996 01:23:42,730 --> 01:23:40,610 you know ultimately this is kind of a 1997 01:23:44,260 --> 01:23:42,740 similar idea I think it's they've sort 1998 01:23:46,450 --> 01:23:44,270 of potentially bastardized it a little 1999 01:23:48,580 --> 01:23:46,460 bit but yeah ultimately Youngwood sort 2000 01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:48,590 of arguably the same thing we are all 2001 01:23:55,570 --> 01:23:53,930 connected via our unconscious mind and 2002 01:23:59,800 --> 01:23:55,580 this is sort of psychoanalytical 2003 01:24:03,070 --> 01:23:59,810 psychology we sort of all think similar 2004 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:03,080 things about the universe around us we 2005 01:24:07,729 --> 01:24:05,610 all have similar thoughts about 2006 01:24:12,189 --> 01:24:07,739 what's good and what's bad when it comes 2007 01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:12,199 to sort of the world out there we all 2008 01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:15,210 for some reason get that feeling that 2009 01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:17,850 we're being watched and you know we kind 2010 01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:20,489 of start looking around a bit or we get 2011 01:24:25,850 --> 01:24:21,570 feelings of deja vu 2012 01:24:27,890 --> 01:24:25,860 and all that and that's Universal young 2013 01:24:30,979 --> 01:24:27,900 would argue anyway the way we interpret 2014 01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:30,989 dreams are universal so ultimately is 2015 01:24:33,649 --> 01:24:32,489 there something that exists within this 2016 01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:33,659 universal consciousness that's 2017 01:24:39,919 --> 01:24:36,570 intelligent and and manifesting itself 2018 01:24:41,660 --> 01:24:39,929 you know maybe you would say yes and 2019 01:24:45,260 --> 01:24:41,670 like I said I've become Jungian in my 2020 01:24:46,910 --> 01:24:45,270 old age but again it's my hypothesis not 2021 01:24:48,770 --> 01:24:46,920 it's it's nothing more than that you 2022 01:24:50,180 --> 01:24:48,780 know it's just philosophical rumination 2023 01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:50,190 and that's kind of the point and that's 2024 01:24:53,930 --> 01:24:52,050 kind of what my mission I think is in 2025 01:24:56,750 --> 01:24:53,940 the UFO world I'm not here to make 2026 01:24:58,220 --> 01:24:56,760 claims about what UFOs are I don't know 2027 01:25:01,160 --> 01:24:58,230 what your foes are I don't think anyone 2028 01:25:03,919 --> 01:25:01,170 knows what UFOs are all I can do is just 2029 01:25:07,689 --> 01:25:03,929 sort of propose philosophical ideas that 2030 01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:07,699 challenge the current UFO sort of 2031 01:25:12,379 --> 01:25:10,530 mythology that exists out there and I 2032 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:12,389 think the extra-terrestrial hypothesis 2033 01:25:17,330 --> 01:25:15,570 is definitely a big UFO myth not that 2034 01:25:19,370 --> 01:25:17,340 it's not real it's just that it's a 2035 01:25:22,060 --> 01:25:19,380 story we kind of hear over and over and 2036 01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:22,070 over again and it's definitely become 2037 01:25:29,899 --> 01:25:27,900 just the base of UFO discourse and we 2038 01:25:31,609 --> 01:25:29,909 need to question why that is why do we 2039 01:25:33,620 --> 01:25:31,619 believe that it's aliens and not 2040 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:33,630 something else and that's kind of what 2041 01:25:37,660 --> 01:25:35,130 I'm trying to do you know there are a 2042 01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:37,670 lot of people out there that could care 2043 01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:38,850 absolutely 2044 01:25:46,340 --> 01:25:43,440 less about you know UFOs or sightings or 2045 01:25:47,930 --> 01:25:46,350 have never even thought about it what 2046 01:25:50,270 --> 01:25:47,940 happens when they have a sighting when 2047 01:25:54,020 --> 01:25:50,280 they're not even paying attention to any 2048 01:25:55,970 --> 01:25:54,030 part of the UFO field or or may have not 2049 01:25:57,740 --> 01:25:55,980 even heard about anyone have a sighting 2050 01:26:00,830 --> 01:25:57,750 you know I don't think it's I don't 2051 01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:00,840 think it's everywhere that you know I 2052 01:26:04,939 --> 01:26:02,639 think it's a very small percentage of 2053 01:26:08,379 --> 01:26:04,949 people like you and I or even discussing 2054 01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:08,389 the topic or thinking about the topic 2055 01:26:13,129 --> 01:26:11,670 yeah you know the UFO the UFO community 2056 01:26:15,890 --> 01:26:13,139 is very much a subculture alike we are 2057 01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:15,900 not you know part of the mainstream but 2058 01:26:19,310 --> 01:26:18,210 you know UFOs have very much permeated 2059 01:26:21,290 --> 01:26:19,320 the mainstream you know 2060 01:26:23,390 --> 01:26:21,300 like the poster behind me right is from 2061 01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:23,400 a television show on on Fox that you 2062 01:26:27,530 --> 01:26:24,719 know millions and millions of people 2063 01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:27,540 have watched so you know while I think 2064 01:26:32,089 --> 01:26:30,239 the core of people like you and I right 2065 01:26:34,100 --> 01:26:32,099 who talk about UFOs sort of all the time 2066 01:26:38,450 --> 01:26:34,110 and and we sort of live in the world of 2067 01:26:40,939 --> 01:26:38,460 UFOs we might be small but you can ask 2068 01:26:42,530 --> 01:26:40,949 anyone what a UFO is and they'll be able 2069 01:26:44,569 --> 01:26:42,540 to tell you right they'll be able to 2070 01:26:46,939 --> 01:26:44,579 tell you this is what you know I've been 2071 01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:46,949 told it is because you know History 2072 01:26:51,379 --> 01:26:48,449 Channel or Discovery Channel had this 2073 01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:51,389 show about MUFON or gonna or the x-files 2074 01:26:55,819 --> 01:26:54,449 or Star Trek or anything so you know 2075 01:26:57,649 --> 01:26:55,829 it's interesting right when we talk 2076 01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:57,659 about people who are not in any way 2077 01:27:01,459 --> 01:26:59,280 involved in the UFO world have a 2078 01:27:03,229 --> 01:27:01,469 sighting I would say they fundamentally 2079 01:27:04,810 --> 01:27:03,239 already have had sightings right they've 2080 01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:04,820 seen them on TV all the time right 2081 01:27:09,470 --> 01:27:07,530 people have seen black triangles and 2082 01:27:11,709 --> 01:27:09,480 flying saucers and aliens you know you 2083 01:27:14,510 --> 01:27:11,719 go out into the world you go into any 2084 01:27:17,379 --> 01:27:14,520 Walmart and there is little toy aliens 2085 01:27:20,450 --> 01:27:17,389 and and spaceships and all that stuff so 2086 01:27:22,609 --> 01:27:20,460 they've already been exposed to the idea 2087 01:27:23,899 --> 01:27:22,619 of what a UFO is they've they've all 2088 01:27:25,609 --> 01:27:23,909 been exposed to the idea of what a 2089 01:27:27,050 --> 01:27:25,619 flying saucer is or what a gray is 2090 01:27:30,379 --> 01:27:27,060 because they've seen the movies they've 2091 01:27:31,370 --> 01:27:30,389 seen the documentaries and just because 2092 01:27:32,930 --> 01:27:31,380 they don't think about it on a daily 2093 01:27:34,609 --> 01:27:32,940 basis doesn't mean they can't an 2094 01:27:35,689 --> 01:27:34,619 experience and just because they don't 2095 01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:35,699 think about on a daily basis doesn't 2096 01:27:40,339 --> 01:27:37,320 mean that these shows aren't on TV still 2097 01:27:41,870 --> 01:27:40,349 and and I would argue that probably the 2098 01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:41,880 vast majority of people on this 2099 01:27:46,750 --> 01:27:44,090 especially in the West in North America 2100 01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:46,760 definitely sort of see UFOs all the time 2101 01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:49,650 not necessarily sort of anomalous ones 2102 01:27:56,959 --> 01:27:52,800 in the sky but they see it on TV a lot 2103 01:28:01,600 --> 01:27:56,969 or in movies or you know in in books or 2104 01:28:03,589 --> 01:28:01,610 magazines or whatever the Internet so 2105 01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:03,599 what we then need to sort of establish 2106 01:28:09,589 --> 01:28:06,960 is when a skeptic or when someone who 2107 01:28:14,180 --> 01:28:09,599 doesn't deal with UFOs at all has an 2108 01:28:17,180 --> 01:28:14,190 anomalous experience are they seeing an 2109 01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:17,190 objective flying saucer made of you know 2110 01:28:22,609 --> 01:28:20,250 metal or whatever the whatever the 2111 01:28:24,890 --> 01:28:22,619 material is being piloted by little 2112 01:28:28,339 --> 01:28:24,900 beings who are three feet tall and have 2113 01:28:30,140 --> 01:28:28,349 big heads are actually seeing that 2114 01:28:33,020 --> 01:28:30,150 objectively as a thing just like the 2115 01:28:37,100 --> 01:28:33,030 table in front of us or 2116 01:28:40,460 --> 01:28:37,110 are they seeing something and their mind 2117 01:28:44,150 --> 01:28:40,470 is interpreting that something as that 2118 01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:44,160 metal disk with little men flying it and 2119 01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:46,290 I think again that's the the question I 2120 01:28:56,180 --> 01:28:49,890 like to wrestle with is there an 2121 01:28:56,780 --> 01:28:56,190 objective UFO piloted by aliens or is it 2122 01:28:59,210 --> 01:28:56,790 something else 2123 01:29:01,810 --> 01:28:59,220 is it an anomalous event that you and I 2124 01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:01,820 are approaching from our own place and 2125 01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:04,800 interpreting in our own way and this is 2126 01:29:09,340 --> 01:29:06,570 the the point of my sort of 2127 01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:09,350 philosophical work within the UFO world 2128 01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:16,530 so do you think if someone was along 2129 01:29:20,860 --> 01:29:18,690 your lines they would you could still 2130 01:29:24,230 --> 01:29:20,870 taut you know thinking along your lines 2131 01:29:28,430 --> 01:29:24,240 they could still talk about witnesses 2132 01:29:30,020 --> 01:29:28,440 like several police officers you know 2133 01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:30,030 there was that case where it went 2134 01:29:33,770 --> 01:29:32,010 through several state are three or four 2135 01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:33,780 states where there was if they were 2136 01:29:40,730 --> 01:29:36,810 following it in do you think they would 2137 01:29:42,980 --> 01:29:40,740 interpret something as you know a flying 2138 01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:42,990 saucer from out of this world type of 2139 01:29:51,170 --> 01:29:46,290 thing how does that happen you know you 2140 01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:51,180 hear the their report yet so I'm not 2141 01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:54,330 sure how that's all right yeah all right 2142 01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:57,090 say let's say the case of I can't 2143 01:30:00,080 --> 01:29:58,320 remember when it was happened in the 2144 01:30:02,270 --> 01:30:00,090 Midwest Ohio and then it went through 2145 01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:02,280 like three states and all through the 2146 01:30:06,410 --> 01:30:04,410 morning in the night where all these 2147 01:30:11,390 --> 01:30:06,420 police officers were basically chasing 2148 01:30:13,340 --> 01:30:11,400 this UFO right they saw something you 2149 01:30:16,730 --> 01:30:13,350 think in in your terms they saw 2150 01:30:20,060 --> 01:30:16,740 something but not necessarily a UFO 2151 01:30:22,780 --> 01:30:20,070 strange UFO object same thing with you 2152 01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:22,790 know the Belgium you know triangle flap 2153 01:30:27,830 --> 01:30:25,440 you know what were these people seeing 2154 01:30:30,590 --> 01:30:27,840 and how did how did they interpret it 2155 01:30:34,100 --> 01:30:30,600 the way they did if it if it wasn't what 2156 01:30:38,420 --> 01:30:34,110 a you know they're say it was right so 2157 01:30:40,550 --> 01:30:38,430 so you know again if we sort of go along 2158 01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:40,560 this theory if we kind of follow it to 2159 01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:44,460 sort of a conclusion here whatever that 2160 01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:46,650 thing was that that other that 2161 01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:49,050 that anomaly that intelligence whatever 2162 01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:51,890 it was became that object it sort of 2163 01:30:58,459 --> 01:30:54,810 manifested itself as that Flying Saucer 2164 01:31:01,250 --> 01:30:58,469 or black triangle or you know the 2165 01:31:03,950 --> 01:31:01,260 Phoenix lights delta wing it manifested 2166 01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:03,960 itself as that and then it sort of went 2167 01:31:07,910 --> 01:31:06,210 along its way and people saw it all 2168 01:31:09,740 --> 01:31:07,920 along the way the police officers who 2169 01:31:12,350 --> 01:31:09,750 saw the flying disc or whatever it was 2170 01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:12,360 across three states you know when it 2171 01:31:16,850 --> 01:31:14,489 first became that flying disc it would 2172 01:31:19,970 --> 01:31:16,860 have sort of remained that until that 2173 01:31:22,010 --> 01:31:19,980 experience ended again if we're dealing 2174 01:31:23,930 --> 01:31:22,020 with this idea of a universal 2175 01:31:29,390 --> 01:31:23,940 consciousness if a universal yeah a 2176 01:31:31,820 --> 01:31:29,400 universal consciousness again we're all 2177 01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:31,830 connected right so if if a police 2178 01:31:38,180 --> 01:31:35,360 officer in Ohio see something his 2179 01:31:40,100 --> 01:31:38,190 universe his his sort of unconscious 2180 01:31:42,530 --> 01:31:40,110 mind is tied in with everyone else it's 2181 01:31:44,689 --> 01:31:42,540 just kind of becoming what it needs to 2182 01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:44,699 become for us to see it for us to 2183 01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:47,370 experience it so it takes the shape of a 2184 01:31:52,340 --> 01:31:49,050 flying disc or a black triangle or 2185 01:31:54,500 --> 01:31:52,350 whatever you know to kind of reverse 2186 01:31:56,930 --> 01:31:54,510 your question a little bit why do these 2187 01:31:59,390 --> 01:31:56,940 police officers in the United States see 2188 01:32:02,600 --> 01:31:59,400 a flying saucer and why did the people 2189 01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:02,610 in Belgium have a black triangle flap if 2190 01:32:06,470 --> 01:32:05,130 it's extraterrestrials why did the 2191 01:32:07,700 --> 01:32:06,480 extraterrestrials change the shape of 2192 01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:07,710 their vehicle yeah they have many 2193 01:32:13,220 --> 01:32:11,370 different models right and and that 2194 01:32:15,530 --> 01:32:13,230 becomes right now becomes some curious 2195 01:32:17,300 --> 01:32:15,540 like statement that we make about extra 2196 01:32:18,410 --> 01:32:17,310 hypotheses right oh well yeah there's 2197 01:32:21,830 --> 01:32:18,420 how I explained that because they have 2198 01:32:24,979 --> 01:32:21,840 different types of ships okay sure so so 2199 01:32:26,870 --> 01:32:24,989 so they have flying discs for one reason 2200 01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:26,880 and then they have black triangles for 2201 01:32:30,709 --> 01:32:28,170 another and then how about like the 2202 01:32:32,660 --> 01:32:30,719 ovals or the Delta wings and I mean it 2203 01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:32,670 we can keep going like the problem with 2204 01:32:39,580 --> 01:32:35,730 the extra hypothesis is it's incredibly 2205 01:32:42,709 --> 01:32:39,590 relative we can just like spiral into 2206 01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:42,719 chaos and we can explain everything by 2207 01:32:46,970 --> 01:32:45,210 just adding more stuff right we just add 2208 01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:46,980 more shapes and we saw they've got 2209 01:32:50,660 --> 01:32:48,510 different types of vehicles and you know 2210 01:32:51,919 --> 01:32:50,670 this one can do this speed and and this 2211 01:32:53,390 --> 01:32:51,929 one's designed for this type of truck 2212 01:32:57,169 --> 01:32:53,400 you know I mean like does that not sound 2213 01:33:00,620 --> 01:32:57,179 kind of odd to anyone I don't know it 2214 01:33:03,290 --> 01:33:00,630 seems it 2215 01:33:05,959 --> 01:33:03,300 seems odd that an intelligence that can 2216 01:33:07,700 --> 01:33:05,969 travel the Stars would have different 2217 01:33:11,209 --> 01:33:07,710 types of spaceships or stylistic ships 2218 01:33:13,370 --> 01:33:11,219 for some reason right like there's a lot 2219 01:33:16,100 --> 01:33:13,380 of opal that mio attribute the military 2220 01:33:18,770 --> 01:33:16,110 to black projects to the triangles 2221 01:33:20,780 --> 01:33:18,780 problem but the triangles have been 2222 01:33:23,540 --> 01:33:20,790 around for quite a while I mean I have a 2223 01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:23,550 friend who saw one in the 70s you know 2224 01:33:31,129 --> 01:33:27,510 they bent right I tell you a quick story 2225 01:33:32,780 --> 01:33:31,139 of I was having I was doing my show in a 2226 01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:32,790 different home that I'm in now I was 2227 01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:35,250 living in a condo at the time on on a 2228 01:33:39,740 --> 01:33:38,489 golf course and during the show my 2229 01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:39,750 neighbor was pounding on the door I 2230 01:33:46,340 --> 01:33:41,520 didn't I didn't hear her but she told me 2231 01:33:47,899 --> 01:33:46,350 later she said a huge triangle came over 2232 01:33:49,750 --> 01:33:47,909 the golf course and like floated over 2233 01:33:52,189 --> 01:33:49,760 the golf course and then took off and 2234 01:33:53,419 --> 01:33:52,199 she was like really scared she was 2235 01:33:56,330 --> 01:33:53,429 knocking on the door so I could come out 2236 01:33:58,220 --> 01:33:56,340 and see it so I told her well you know I 2237 01:34:00,410 --> 01:33:58,230 do a show on UFOs and I was actually 2238 01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:00,420 doing one when this happened you know 2239 01:34:03,979 --> 01:34:02,370 this amazing awesome can you come back 2240 01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:03,989 next week and be on my show this is 2241 01:34:08,990 --> 01:34:06,330 great she goes oh no I don't believe in 2242 01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:09,000 UFOs there's no way and I said no you 2243 01:34:11,810 --> 01:34:10,770 can be anonymous she was it's no way I'm 2244 01:34:13,910 --> 01:34:11,820 not gonna be on your show 2245 01:34:16,490 --> 01:34:13,920 sure nothing to do with UFOs and she 2246 01:34:19,300 --> 01:34:16,500 never actually talked to me again that 2247 01:34:21,860 --> 01:34:19,310 was like she kept her distance from me 2248 01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:21,870 and UFOs have this effect right like we 2249 01:34:29,870 --> 01:34:25,170 have this anxiety about the idea of the 2250 01:34:31,100 --> 01:34:29,880 UFO we have this anxiety about we 2251 01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:31,110 haven't anxiety about this concept that 2252 01:34:34,700 --> 01:34:32,370 there's something else out there right 2253 01:34:36,110 --> 01:34:34,710 that's intelligent and doing things 2254 01:34:38,330 --> 01:34:36,120 right that's sort of meddling in our 2255 01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:38,340 world you know we as humans live on this 2256 01:34:43,430 --> 01:34:41,010 planet and we kind of go to bed every 2257 01:34:46,310 --> 01:34:43,440 night comfortable in the fact that we're 2258 01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:46,320 the top dog you know there is nothing 2259 01:34:51,169 --> 01:34:48,690 else on this planet that's bigger than 2260 01:34:52,550 --> 01:34:51,179 us on the food chain right we we can 2261 01:34:55,100 --> 01:34:52,560 outgun everything right it doesn't 2262 01:34:57,110 --> 01:34:55,110 matter sort of the the biggest predator 2263 01:34:58,669 --> 01:34:57,120 out there and it doesn't compare to us 2264 01:34:59,930 --> 01:34:58,679 you know if we need to we can move a 2265 01:35:02,930 --> 01:34:59,940 mountain out of the way right to build 2266 01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:02,940 the train track for it or whatever you 2267 01:35:07,340 --> 01:35:05,610 know because we have this massive 2268 01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:07,350 intelligence right that you know because 2269 01:35:14,540 --> 01:35:11,370 we're human UFOs and the idea of an 2270 01:35:19,459 --> 01:35:14,550 intelligent other is really frightening 2271 01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:19,469 we lose then our control over the planet 2272 01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:21,570 we lose our control over we lose the 2273 01:35:25,399 --> 01:35:23,610 control over ourselves we lose control 2274 01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:25,409 over the way we govern our lives on a 2275 01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:27,449 day to day to day basis if there is 2276 01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:29,760 something else that is intelligent and 2277 01:35:34,970 --> 01:35:31,770 not only that is intelligent enough that 2278 01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:34,980 it can kind of help maneuver us or it 2279 01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:37,050 can help gonna soar or it can sort of 2280 01:35:40,850 --> 01:35:39,210 disappear or reappear random or it just 2281 01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:40,860 doesn't really care what we think and 2282 01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:42,290 just kind of goes about its merry way 2283 01:35:46,970 --> 01:35:44,730 this makes this this kind of freaks 2284 01:35:50,930 --> 01:35:46,980 people out and and I think rightfully so 2285 01:35:54,250 --> 01:35:50,940 UFOs are definitely an an anxious and 2286 01:35:56,990 --> 01:35:54,260 and and um sort of frightening thing 2287 01:35:58,790 --> 01:35:57,000 nobody wants to go to bed at night I'm 2288 01:36:00,649 --> 01:35:58,800 thinking that you know something's 2289 01:36:02,990 --> 01:36:00,659 better than they are or something's 2290 01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:03,000 bigger than they are and they can't 2291 01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:06,510 control it for people this is scary 2292 01:36:11,870 --> 01:36:09,570 we like to remain on top and you know 2293 01:36:14,270 --> 01:36:11,880 UFOs definitely throw that under the bus 2294 01:36:18,169 --> 01:36:14,280 yes and I think you know that's part of 2295 01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:18,179 the reason you know the Air Force you 2296 01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:20,639 know they had no control of what was 2297 01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:22,770 going on you know no matter what what it 2298 01:36:27,229 --> 01:36:25,650 was and you know and that's I think 2299 01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:27,239 that's why they you know stepped away 2300 01:36:33,950 --> 01:36:29,610 from it you know nothing was happening 2301 01:36:35,689 --> 01:36:33,960 in any serious way to affect anyone that 2302 01:36:38,899 --> 01:36:35,699 they they knew it yeah so what do you 2303 01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:38,909 think about Robert Bigelow did you hear 2304 01:36:43,010 --> 01:36:40,800 his statement on 60 minutes what he 2305 01:36:47,959 --> 01:36:43,020 thought about UFOs and coming to the 2306 01:36:50,209 --> 01:36:47,969 earth you know what I heard it happen 2307 01:36:53,780 --> 01:36:50,219 but I didn't sort of listen to it can 2308 01:36:56,419 --> 01:36:53,790 you give me a quick paraphrase Rob so he 2309 01:36:59,060 --> 01:36:56,429 was being interviewed by Lara Logan and 2310 01:37:01,580 --> 01:36:59,070 she said do you believe that UFOs have 2311 01:37:03,620 --> 01:37:01,590 come to this earth and there's his 2312 01:37:07,010 --> 01:37:03,630 answer was there has been in existence 2313 01:37:09,140 --> 01:37:07,020 presence and et presence and I've spent 2314 01:37:12,410 --> 01:37:09,150 millions millions of dollars probably 2315 01:37:14,990 --> 01:37:12,420 spent more than any individual ever has 2316 01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,000 in the United States as ever on this 2317 01:37:19,939 --> 01:37:17,280 subject and you know basically he just 2318 01:37:23,510 --> 01:37:19,949 was saying he didn't give a damn he 2319 01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:23,520 didn't care what people thought they he 2320 01:37:27,530 --> 01:37:24,960 didn't care if they thought he was crazy 2321 01:37:28,339 --> 01:37:27,540 or whatever you know he just moved what 2322 01:37:30,649 --> 01:37:28,349 he knew 2323 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:30,659 and so yeah I mean you haven't really 2324 01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:32,730 had time to really digest any of that 2325 01:37:38,660 --> 01:37:37,290 but no but I think he makes sort of a 2326 01:37:40,339 --> 01:37:38,670 similar claim that a lot of people in 2327 01:37:42,379 --> 01:37:40,349 the yo full world sort of claim right 2328 01:37:46,660 --> 01:37:42,389 they say like I know it's aliens right 2329 01:37:49,550 --> 01:37:46,670 or I know it's extraterrestrials um I 2330 01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:49,560 think we can sort of walk away from any 2331 01:37:54,260 --> 01:37:51,810 UFO event from any UFO sighting or any 2332 01:37:55,939 --> 01:37:54,270 contact event or any abduction event we 2333 01:37:58,729 --> 01:37:55,949 can walk away not necessarily saying 2334 01:38:00,560 --> 01:37:58,739 that I know 100% they're extra serious 2335 01:38:03,229 --> 01:38:00,570 from another planet I think we can walk 2336 01:38:05,180 --> 01:38:03,239 away saying something strange happened 2337 01:38:07,189 --> 01:38:05,190 something anomalous happened and it was 2338 01:38:10,189 --> 01:38:07,199 intelligent that's sort of what we can 2339 01:38:12,709 --> 01:38:10,199 walk away with to say anything more than 2340 01:38:16,370 --> 01:38:12,719 that to say anything more than it was 2341 01:38:17,839 --> 01:38:16,380 anomalous and strange and intelligent 2342 01:38:19,819 --> 01:38:17,849 you know I think that's okay 2343 01:38:22,939 --> 01:38:19,829 because there's there's there's evidence 2344 01:38:25,189 --> 01:38:22,949 for that type of sort of argument to 2345 01:38:27,919 --> 01:38:25,199 then say they're aliens from this planet 2346 01:38:29,780 --> 01:38:27,929 now we're kind of going on a totally 2347 01:38:33,500 --> 01:38:29,790 different we're making a huge logical 2348 01:38:35,479 --> 01:38:33,510 leap here into into just what I 2349 01:38:37,939 --> 01:38:35,489 personally believe to be happening and 2350 01:38:40,100 --> 01:38:37,949 or what someone personally believes to 2351 01:38:42,129 --> 01:38:40,110 be happy and I think that this is well 2352 01:38:45,589 --> 01:38:42,139 he's like he didn't really explain why 2353 01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:45,599 he saying he knew what I knew is just 2354 01:38:49,819 --> 01:38:48,090 the fact that he he knew it because he 2355 01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:49,829 spent millions of dollars on the subject 2356 01:38:55,490 --> 01:38:54,090 to look into it okay so that like does 2357 01:38:57,379 --> 01:38:55,500 that mean he spoke to one of them like 2358 01:38:58,819 --> 01:38:57,389 does that mean he bought a meeting and 2359 01:39:00,229 --> 01:38:58,829 they came down and they were like yeah 2360 01:39:01,490 --> 01:39:00,239 it's a hundred percent you know this 2361 01:39:04,700 --> 01:39:01,500 were his plan and then they took like 2362 01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:04,710 you know I don't know and this this is 2363 01:39:08,950 --> 01:39:06,210 this is again just I think he's just 2364 01:39:11,450 --> 01:39:08,960 sort of making a belief claim here um 2365 01:39:12,530 --> 01:39:11,460 one thing I'll say is he's he's 2366 01:39:14,319 --> 01:39:12,540 definitely saying that there was 2367 01:39:16,910 --> 01:39:14,329 something strange going on right I mean 2368 01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:16,920 can he definitely proved that it's 2369 01:39:21,740 --> 01:39:18,810 extraterrestrial can he prove that it's 2370 01:39:23,810 --> 01:39:21,750 you know meat bodies like you and I from 2371 01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:23,820 another planet coming here I don't think 2372 01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:25,170 so because I'm sure he would probably 2373 01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:26,489 have come up with the proof if he added 2374 01:39:33,379 --> 01:39:31,199 and and just say that we are being 2375 01:39:35,899 --> 01:39:33,389 visited let's just throw that out there 2376 01:39:38,270 --> 01:39:35,909 let's say we are being visited yeah why 2377 01:39:40,549 --> 01:39:38,280 would you think that it's been so long 2378 01:39:41,620 --> 01:39:40,559 with so many interested people not being 2379 01:39:47,740 --> 01:39:41,630 able to 2380 01:39:49,390 --> 01:39:47,750 grasp any hard evidence right and this 2381 01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:49,400 is ultimately the problem right with the 2382 01:39:55,930 --> 01:39:53,210 accurate our hypothesis is that you know 2383 01:39:58,390 --> 01:39:55,940 like there's no real evidence there's a 2384 01:39:59,620 --> 01:39:58,400 few pieces of physical evidence that we 2385 01:40:01,899 --> 01:39:59,630 sort of say are dubious right like 2386 01:40:03,340 --> 01:40:01,909 there's been a few you know but people 2387 01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:03,350 claim when they've been abducted have 2388 01:40:08,260 --> 01:40:06,560 had the non-flying probes removed I yeah 2389 01:40:10,419 --> 01:40:08,270 the implants movement but again you know 2390 01:40:11,740 --> 01:40:10,429 the result like none of the results that 2391 01:40:13,419 --> 01:40:11,750 come back from any of the tests 2392 01:40:15,010 --> 01:40:13,429 regarding those things are you know oh 2393 01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:15,020 my god this is a metal we've never seen 2394 01:40:20,709 --> 01:40:17,090 before or whatever you know they sort of 2395 01:40:22,770 --> 01:40:20,719 come back you know odd and strange but 2396 01:40:26,410 --> 01:40:22,780 they're not sort of smoking gun evidence 2397 01:40:29,350 --> 01:40:26,420 so all of the evidence is relatively 2398 01:40:31,660 --> 01:40:29,360 dubious if it is extraterrestrials like 2399 01:40:34,510 --> 01:40:31,670 you and I they're doing a very good job 2400 01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:34,520 of covering their tracks furthermore for 2401 01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:36,110 a group of people who crashed their 2402 01:40:40,390 --> 01:40:38,210 spaceships so many times in this planet 2403 01:40:43,390 --> 01:40:40,400 whether it's Roswell or you know Aztec 2404 01:40:44,830 --> 01:40:43,400 or or or you know wherever you know they 2405 01:40:46,390 --> 01:40:44,840 keep slamming their spaceships into the 2406 01:40:51,939 --> 01:40:46,400 ends of the earth the fact that no one's 2407 01:40:53,229 --> 01:40:51,949 found anything is surprising this is 2408 01:40:54,879 --> 01:40:53,239 fundamentally the problem with 2409 01:40:56,229 --> 01:40:54,889 extra-terrestrial hypothesis it's been a 2410 01:40:59,860 --> 01:40:56,239 long time and people have claimed that 2411 01:41:01,120 --> 01:40:59,870 we've been visited for thousands and 2412 01:41:02,740 --> 01:41:01,130 thousands and thousands of years right 2413 01:41:05,169 --> 01:41:02,750 you know ancient aliens would posit that 2414 01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:05,179 you know this is not a new thing this is 2415 01:41:10,540 --> 01:41:07,850 an ancient thing and again there is 2416 01:41:14,290 --> 01:41:10,550 literally no smoking gun evidence that 2417 01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:14,300 we can say yeah 100% here it is they're 2418 01:41:18,250 --> 01:41:16,730 doing an amazing job of covering their 2419 01:41:21,220 --> 01:41:18,260 tracks mmm 2420 01:41:23,110 --> 01:41:21,230 now if it's not extraterrestrial let's 2421 01:41:24,879 --> 01:41:23,120 say it's intelligence that simply 2422 01:41:26,620 --> 01:41:24,889 manifests itself physically at times 2423 01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:26,630 well it makes sense nothing would be 2424 01:41:32,350 --> 01:41:29,090 left behind because when it's simply you 2425 01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:32,360 know when it leaves the reality we exist 2426 01:41:37,209 --> 01:41:34,370 in it kind of takes everything with it 2427 01:41:38,830 --> 01:41:37,219 right it leaves our sort of 2428 01:41:40,780 --> 01:41:38,840 interpretation of reality and it kind of 2429 01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:40,790 returns to wherever it's home is or not 2430 01:41:42,910 --> 01:41:41,330 home answer 2431 01:41:45,189 --> 01:41:42,920 that's a weirdo saying it it returns to 2432 01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:45,199 kind of wherever its places in in sort 2433 01:41:53,770 --> 01:41:50,690 of our our unconsciousness or or within 2434 01:41:55,020 --> 01:41:53,780 the sort of the linked sort of reality 2435 01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:55,030 that that we can't access 2436 01:41:58,050 --> 01:41:56,650 you know sometimes people say multiverse 2437 01:42:02,700 --> 01:41:58,060 for example right stranger things would 2438 01:42:06,750 --> 01:42:02,710 call it the upside down you know if if 2439 01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:06,760 if it's not bodies of meat like you and 2440 01:42:10,770 --> 01:42:08,770 I flying in spaceships it's something 2441 01:42:12,260 --> 01:42:10,780 else then that makes sense why there's 2442 01:42:15,810 --> 01:42:12,270 no physical evidence being left behind 2443 01:42:18,180 --> 01:42:15,820 one would think at some point you know 2444 01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:18,190 just like Larry the alien forgets to 2445 01:42:22,590 --> 01:42:19,930 turn the cloaking on and it gets a radar 2446 01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:22,600 hit one would think one would make a 2447 01:42:25,620 --> 01:42:24,130 mistake at some point or would screw up 2448 01:42:28,020 --> 01:42:25,630 or I mean they crashed at Roswell 2449 01:42:29,700 --> 01:42:28,030 apparently so you know clearly there 2450 01:42:31,710 --> 01:42:29,710 must be some shred of evidence out there 2451 01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:31,720 and there's zero chance you know the 2452 01:42:34,380 --> 01:42:33,010 American military night report 7 could 2453 01:42:40,590 --> 01:42:34,390 clean it all out i don't know i i'm i 2454 01:42:42,540 --> 01:42:40,600 find eth dubious so you know to to get 2455 01:42:44,670 --> 01:42:42,550 sort of back to your question you know 2456 01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:44,680 if we are being visited let's say by 2457 01:42:50,850 --> 01:42:49,360 aliens sorry I told you for all question 2458 01:42:53,730 --> 01:42:50,860 actually yeah why do you think the 2459 01:42:57,660 --> 01:42:53,740 evidence has been elusive for so long 2460 01:43:00,420 --> 01:42:57,670 yeah yeah so you know that's sort of 2461 01:43:01,860 --> 01:43:00,430 yeah that's how I started I guess it's 2462 01:43:03,780 --> 01:43:01,870 because there is no evidence right like 2463 01:43:05,250 --> 01:43:03,790 fundamentally I don't think it's it's 2464 01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:05,260 extraterrestrial another planet I think 2465 01:43:09,180 --> 01:43:06,730 that's why the evidence is elusive is 2466 01:43:11,070 --> 01:43:09,190 because ultimately I I just don't think 2467 01:43:12,510 --> 01:43:11,080 they're literally flying here in metal 2468 01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:12,520 spaceships visiting us I don't think 2469 01:43:17,100 --> 01:43:14,890 that's what we're dealing with because 2470 01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:17,110 if they were doing that there would be 2471 01:43:21,180 --> 01:43:19,360 evidence well there's there's on we 2472 01:43:22,890 --> 01:43:21,190 think there would be evidence but again 2473 01:43:27,480 --> 01:43:22,900 that's thinking along our lines of 2474 01:43:29,310 --> 01:43:27,490 making mistakes and you know if they 2475 01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:29,320 were intelligent enough to be here 2476 01:43:36,930 --> 01:43:32,290 perhaps they don't want to be you know 2477 01:43:38,870 --> 01:43:36,940 totally discovered or evidential should 2478 01:43:41,610 --> 01:43:38,880 disrupt our societies like the thing 2479 01:43:43,350 --> 01:43:41,620 right so you have to have to ask those 2480 01:43:46,380 --> 01:43:43,360 same people you know did they crash at 2481 01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:46,390 Roswell or do they crash at other places 2482 01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:48,130 because there's apparently been you know 2483 01:43:50,220 --> 01:43:49,930 dozens of UFO crashes in the last seven 2484 01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:50,230 years 2485 01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:53,770 so again if they're if they're hybrid 2486 01:43:59,130 --> 01:43:55,360 advanced and intelligent and they don't 2487 01:44:00,840 --> 01:43:59,140 make mistakes you know are we then do 2488 01:44:04,440 --> 01:44:00,850 those people still believe in Roswell as 2489 01:44:07,020 --> 01:44:04,450 a case right and this is interesting 2490 01:44:08,430 --> 01:44:07,030 right it's interesting to say they're so 2491 01:44:08,810 --> 01:44:08,440 hyper advanced that they have this 2492 01:44:10,060 --> 01:44:08,820 amazing 2493 01:44:13,670 --> 01:44:10,070 ecology and they don't screw up 2494 01:44:15,590 --> 01:44:13,680 meanwhile they crashed at Roswell you 2495 01:44:18,980 --> 01:44:15,600 know which is doesn't necessarily 2496 01:44:20,480 --> 01:44:18,990 correlate in logic it was a hairy forgot 2497 01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:20,490 to push the button that they're in the 2498 01:44:26,410 --> 01:44:24,000 you know right yeah you know the guy so 2499 01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:26,420 let's say let's just say Roswell is 2500 01:44:29,300 --> 01:44:28,170 nothing nothing happened at Roswell 2501 01:44:30,590 --> 01:44:29,310 let's just say it was a balloon or 2502 01:44:32,660 --> 01:44:30,600 something right and let's say they are 2503 01:44:35,210 --> 01:44:32,670 we are being visited just for the sake 2504 01:44:37,970 --> 01:44:35,220 of argument we're being visited by a 2505 01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:37,980 hyper-intelligent species that does not 2506 01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:43,290 make mistakes and and you know they just 2507 01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:46,050 cover their tracks perfectly you know I 2508 01:44:49,820 --> 01:44:47,970 suppose then potentially we could just 2509 01:44:51,590 --> 01:44:49,830 be dealing with you know technology so 2510 01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:51,600 advanced and it seems like magic to us 2511 01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:54,570 right they leave nothing behind because 2512 01:44:58,190 --> 01:44:56,850 maybe their version of reality you know 2513 01:44:59,000 --> 01:44:58,200 doesn't leave stuff behind in our 2514 01:45:01,100 --> 01:44:59,010 version I don't know it could be 2515 01:45:06,130 --> 01:45:01,110 anything you know I've written a lot of 2516 01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:06,140 articles about a theory posited by a 2517 01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:08,730 physicist named Caleb Scharf he says 2518 01:45:14,300 --> 01:45:12,210 that you know perhaps and a hyper 2519 01:45:16,390 --> 01:45:14,310 advanced alien species would upload 2520 01:45:19,820 --> 01:45:16,400 itself into the laws of physics itself 2521 01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:19,830 they would leave behind physical bodies 2522 01:45:24,740 --> 01:45:21,690 and they would become part of the 2523 01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:24,750 universe they would sort of become one 2524 01:45:29,090 --> 01:45:27,360 with the sort of matter within the 2525 01:45:32,060 --> 01:45:29,100 universe and he wrote he wrote an 2526 01:45:34,250 --> 01:45:32,070 article I believe for the Atlantic and 2527 01:45:35,770 --> 01:45:34,260 then III wrote it for mysterious 2528 01:45:39,530 --> 01:45:35,780 universe I sort of talked about his idea 2529 01:45:41,660 --> 01:45:39,540 and you know maybe this what's going on 2530 01:45:43,190 --> 01:45:41,670 maybe we are communicating with 2531 01:45:44,420 --> 01:45:43,200 something hyper intelligent but it 2532 01:45:45,530 --> 01:45:44,430 doesn't leave traces because it's just 2533 01:45:48,590 --> 01:45:45,540 it's not physical like you and I are 2534 01:45:51,260 --> 01:45:48,600 physical it exists within the fabric of 2535 01:45:53,990 --> 01:45:51,270 the universe itself it's part of matter 2536 01:45:56,060 --> 01:45:54,000 itself and it just kind of shows up when 2537 01:45:57,670 --> 01:45:56,070 it wants to who knows 2538 01:46:00,020 --> 01:45:57,680 rather nothing there's gonna be a 2539 01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:00,030 there's gonna be a point where you reach 2540 01:46:04,250 --> 01:46:02,250 such a technological advancement that 2541 01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:04,260 you no longer need a physical body you 2542 01:46:08,900 --> 01:46:06,930 would simply become energy itself 2543 01:46:11,660 --> 01:46:08,910 potential you could upload yourself into 2544 01:46:14,150 --> 01:46:11,670 dark matter or dark energy or whatever 2545 01:46:16,910 --> 01:46:14,160 other sort of you know quantum physical 2546 01:46:21,170 --> 01:46:16,920 and idea that science is currently 2547 01:46:22,830 --> 01:46:21,180 playing around with so you know we I can 2548 01:46:27,240 --> 01:46:22,840 be honest if it is extra 2549 01:46:29,490 --> 01:46:27,250 visiting us and they're there in Seoul 2550 01:46:30,810 --> 01:46:29,500 hyper-advanced beyond us there they're 2551 01:46:32,460 --> 01:46:30,820 probably not physical anyway right 2552 01:46:34,130 --> 01:46:32,470 they're probably not man enough meet 2553 01:46:36,930 --> 01:46:34,140 like you and I are made out of meat 2554 01:46:39,540 --> 01:46:36,940 because I can be honest this this form 2555 01:46:41,550 --> 01:46:39,550 of living this you know it's flawed 2556 01:46:43,590 --> 01:46:41,560 right it it dies eventually it fades 2557 01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:43,600 away you know if you really wanted to 2558 01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:45,250 survive forever if you really wanted to 2559 01:46:51,750 --> 01:46:48,850 ensure your species what exist for 2560 01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:51,760 infinity you become part of the universe 2561 01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:53,440 itself right you become part of the 2562 01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:54,730 building blocks that make up the 2563 01:46:59,130 --> 01:46:56,410 universe that's a really that's an 2564 01:47:01,650 --> 01:46:59,140 interesting theory to me and also along 2565 01:47:04,590 --> 01:47:01,660 the same lines a lot of people talk 2566 01:47:06,450 --> 01:47:04,600 about how things will disappear right in 2567 01:47:10,500 --> 01:47:06,460 front of their eyes you know and and you 2568 01:47:11,310 --> 01:47:10,510 know that would kind of fit that but I 2569 01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:11,320 like that 2570 01:47:15,540 --> 01:47:13,450 and that's very interesting we have a 2571 01:47:17,490 --> 01:47:15,550 Leslie in the chatroom that wanted to 2572 01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:17,500 know what you think about the way the 2573 01:47:22,650 --> 01:47:20,050 UFO experience has changed over the 2574 01:47:27,450 --> 01:47:22,660 decades the collective unconscious and 2575 01:47:31,170 --> 01:47:27,460 the space brothers for example yeah well 2576 01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:31,180 I mean you you see this across you know 2577 01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:33,730 we can even go back into the 1800s right 2578 01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:36,250 and in the 1800's people weren't seeing 2579 01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:37,690 flying saucers and black they were 2580 01:47:41,730 --> 01:47:39,130 seeing airships like they were literally 2581 01:47:44,220 --> 01:47:41,740 seeing balloons with with men with 2582 01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:44,230 strange accents wearing coveralls and 2583 01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:47,170 and you know climbing down on ladders 2584 01:47:53,010 --> 01:47:49,930 and asking for water and then exchanging 2585 01:47:56,310 --> 01:47:53,020 American currency for for like oil and 2586 01:47:59,580 --> 01:47:56,320 gas and then you know moving from there 2587 01:48:02,670 --> 01:47:59,590 you know as our technology changes as 2588 01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:02,680 our technology adjusts so too does our 2589 01:48:07,740 --> 01:48:05,370 unconscious right so too does our 2590 01:48:09,660 --> 01:48:07,750 perception of the world around us and as 2591 01:48:12,780 --> 01:48:09,670 we move technologically into sort of 2592 01:48:17,220 --> 01:48:12,790 today the 21st century um sort of 2593 01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:17,230 clearly our our technological bill 2594 01:48:21,630 --> 01:48:19,090 technological ability is going to 2595 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:21,640 influence sort of our unconscious mind 2596 01:48:25,620 --> 01:48:23,050 and our conscious mind as well it's 2597 01:48:28,020 --> 01:48:25,630 going to shape our belief system it's 2598 01:48:31,140 --> 01:48:28,030 going to shape our it's gonna shape the 2599 01:48:32,370 --> 01:48:31,150 way we perceive the world around us so 2600 01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:32,380 you know talking about the space 2601 01:48:36,690 --> 01:48:34,810 brothers I have you know in the other 2602 01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:36,700 thing we lose the 1960s or late 2603 01:48:41,790 --> 01:48:38,890 early sixties was right the whole space 2604 01:48:43,650 --> 01:48:41,800 state space brother movement well I mean 2605 01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:43,660 you know you can clearly see this this 2606 01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:46,210 idea of sort of these hippie spacemen 2607 01:48:50,430 --> 01:48:47,800 from Venus who sort of talked about 2608 01:48:52,260 --> 01:48:50,440 cosmic love and and you know instead of 2609 01:48:53,820 --> 01:48:52,270 you know building nuclear weapons we 2610 01:48:56,070 --> 01:48:53,830 should just hug it out well this was 2611 01:48:58,440 --> 01:48:56,080 very much kind of the zeitgeist of the 2612 01:49:00,600 --> 01:48:58,450 1950s and 60s right the the hippie 2613 01:49:02,940 --> 01:49:00,610 movement and into the 70s the hippie 2614 01:49:04,500 --> 01:49:02,950 movement was sort of beginning and and 2615 01:49:06,480 --> 01:49:04,510 and and civil rights was sort of 2616 01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:06,490 occurring in the early sixties late 50s 2617 01:49:11,220 --> 01:49:08,560 you know you had this these movements of 2618 01:49:13,620 --> 01:49:11,230 people who were afraid of basically 2619 01:49:15,510 --> 01:49:13,630 getting nuked into oblivion and we're 2620 01:49:18,450 --> 01:49:15,520 going to total opposite weight right we 2621 01:49:21,480 --> 01:49:18,460 need to share and we need to sort of 2622 01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:21,490 live in communion and we need to you 2623 01:49:26,100 --> 01:49:24,370 know be friends with one another instead 2624 01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:26,110 of trying to kill each other you know 2625 01:49:31,100 --> 01:49:28,210 and what's the song by Buffalo 2626 01:49:37,310 --> 01:49:31,110 Springfield right and oh how does it go 2627 01:49:39,990 --> 01:49:37,320 south baby what's that sound yeah right 2628 01:49:43,220 --> 01:49:40,000 you're coming in last part of it but I 2629 01:49:47,610 --> 01:49:43,230 know there's something going on here 2630 01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:47,620 what it is exactly clear okay I don't 2631 01:49:52,110 --> 01:49:50,530 have the singing voice neither do I but 2632 01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:52,120 we I think we got the point across right 2633 01:49:59,690 --> 01:49:55,090 this this this sort of ideological shift 2634 01:50:02,460 --> 01:49:59,700 for sure that occurred from you know the 2635 01:50:05,430 --> 01:50:02,470 exploration and and breaking of the West 2636 01:50:08,760 --> 01:50:05,440 in the United States and airships and 2637 01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:08,770 that sort of ideological movement of 2638 01:50:16,410 --> 01:50:11,850 we're moving out west and we're sort of 2639 01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:16,420 you know going out into into parts of 2640 01:50:20,820 --> 01:50:18,370 Midwest and Western the United States 2641 01:50:24,330 --> 01:50:20,830 with these airships and these you know 2642 01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:24,340 amazing propeller flying devices into 2643 01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:25,930 the nuclear age and into the 21st 2644 01:50:29,250 --> 01:50:27,850 century where today I'm not sure if 2645 01:50:31,470 --> 01:50:29,260 people see flying saucers anymore I have 2646 01:50:32,670 --> 01:50:31,480 to be honest very rarely have I had in 2647 01:50:34,500 --> 01:50:32,680 the last couple years of flying saucer 2648 01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:34,510 report there was always a black triangle 2649 01:50:38,820 --> 01:50:37,450 or it was a norm so you know they don't 2650 01:50:41,220 --> 01:50:38,830 have shapes anymore right they sort of 2651 01:50:43,350 --> 01:50:41,230 shape-shift and they are just lights and 2652 01:50:45,090 --> 01:50:43,360 you know I think we're kind of month at 2653 01:50:46,410 --> 01:50:45,100 the dawn of another youthful aaja chol 2654 01:50:49,350 --> 01:50:46,420 age I think I think we're gonna sort of 2655 01:50:50,580 --> 01:50:49,360 leave physical craft behind as as 2656 01:50:53,070 --> 01:50:50,590 sightings 2657 01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:53,080 sort of you know as we deal with 2658 01:50:56,850 --> 01:50:55,360 sightings of UFOs we're gonna I think 2659 01:50:58,110 --> 01:50:56,860 leave behind physical craft it's gonna 2660 01:51:03,360 --> 01:50:58,120 be something else think I'd be doing 2661 01:51:05,250 --> 01:51:03,370 with more orb like UFO orb like sort of 2662 01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:05,260 UFO encounters or so it'd be interesting 2663 01:51:10,050 --> 01:51:07,210 if we could go ahead and time a hundred 2664 01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:10,060 years from now if if there is no 2665 01:51:15,450 --> 01:51:13,570 evidence at that time what where this 2666 01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:15,460 would have transformed to speaking of 2667 01:51:21,870 --> 01:51:18,850 that 1946 you have the ghost rockets in 2668 01:51:23,310 --> 01:51:21,880 Sweden where they they looked like you 2669 01:51:27,300 --> 01:51:23,320 know sort of like missiles and they all 2670 01:51:29,460 --> 01:51:27,310 landed in lakes and as recent as the the 2671 01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:29,470 late 1970s people were seeing these 2672 01:51:35,700 --> 01:51:32,410 things that's just such a bizarre 2673 01:51:39,210 --> 01:51:35,710 another bizarre twist in the story of of 2674 01:51:40,020 --> 01:51:39,220 UFOs oh for sure and like you said right 2675 01:51:42,300 --> 01:51:40,030 you know people are seeing black 2676 01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:42,310 triangles in the 1970s and and you know 2677 01:51:45,810 --> 01:51:44,080 up into the 90s and even today right and 2678 01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:45,820 and you sort of have these sort of these 2679 01:51:53,310 --> 01:51:49,810 long you know moments of progression 2680 01:51:56,010 --> 01:51:53,320 right of you know people start seeing a 2681 01:51:58,050 --> 01:51:56,020 different type of UFO at a certain at a 2682 01:52:00,630 --> 01:51:58,060 certain time and then it kind of becomes 2683 01:52:02,220 --> 01:52:00,640 more mainstream almost until it becomes 2684 01:52:03,750 --> 01:52:02,230 kind of the norm the black triangle is 2685 01:52:06,750 --> 01:52:03,760 very much them no armaments or the 80s 2686 01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:06,760 and the 90s and then you know now we're 2687 01:52:10,170 --> 01:52:08,290 kind of petering out I think a little 2688 01:52:11,340 --> 01:52:10,180 bit people still see them for sure like 2689 01:52:13,440 --> 01:52:11,350 people still have those sightings but 2690 01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:13,450 it's not as significant as it was in the 2691 01:52:17,430 --> 01:52:14,650 nineties especially in Belgium right 2692 01:52:22,440 --> 01:52:17,440 that was sort of the peak of of black 2693 01:52:24,990 --> 01:52:22,450 triangle UFO sightings and for sure the 2694 01:52:27,750 --> 01:52:25,000 1950s 60s saw the saucer right right and 2695 01:52:30,120 --> 01:52:27,760 the port and and we don't you know like 2696 01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:30,130 I said I'm not sure people see saucer 2697 01:52:32,850 --> 01:52:31,450 shaped UFOs anymore right they're 2698 01:52:35,910 --> 01:52:32,860 they're much different yeah I think this 2699 01:52:38,820 --> 01:52:35,920 I do the news with Alejandro we do the 2700 01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:38,830 news on each other shows and there's 2701 01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:41,290 still disc sightings you know what I saw 2702 01:52:45,330 --> 01:52:43,090 well sure disc you know I saw an 2703 01:52:48,330 --> 01:52:45,340 old-fashioned UFO I guess but that was 2704 01:52:50,910 --> 01:52:48,340 uh you know in 2006 but they're they're 2705 01:52:53,580 --> 01:52:50,920 still seen triangles aren't the number 2706 01:52:55,710 --> 01:52:53,590 one there is a there is statistics on 2707 01:52:58,620 --> 01:52:55,720 what they see most of its life in the 2708 01:53:03,060 --> 01:52:58,630 sky of course you know orange orbs have 2709 01:53:04,020 --> 01:53:03,070 taken a big jump ahead yes but we have 2710 01:53:06,630 --> 01:53:04,030 about 2711 01:53:08,730 --> 01:53:06,640 four minutes left and I just wanted to 2712 01:53:15,690 --> 01:53:08,740 ask you what type of flack do you get 2713 01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:15,700 from people in the UFO field um you know 2714 01:53:23,850 --> 01:53:21,250 I think I generally you know I want to 2715 01:53:26,220 --> 01:53:23,860 be nice to everyone I think the the 2716 01:53:28,710 --> 01:53:26,230 biggest hurdle I face is is people need 2717 01:53:31,140 --> 01:53:28,720 to let go of what they think they know 2718 01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:31,150 and I think they need to approach this 2719 01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:34,570 phenomenon from the base point of I have 2720 01:53:38,700 --> 01:53:36,970 no idea and if you can approach the UFO 2721 01:53:40,170 --> 01:53:38,710 question from there I have no idea 2722 01:53:43,050 --> 01:53:40,180 what's going on then 2723 01:53:44,340 --> 01:53:43,060 you're gonna get better answers to your 2724 01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:44,350 questions or at least you're gonna be 2725 01:53:49,110 --> 01:53:47,530 able to think about this differently the 2726 01:53:51,300 --> 01:53:49,120 biggest flack I get is from people who 2727 01:53:53,370 --> 01:53:51,310 automatically have bought into one idea 2728 01:53:56,190 --> 01:53:53,380 and one idea only there's people out 2729 01:53:59,510 --> 01:53:56,200 there who say it's 100% aliens it's 100 2730 01:54:01,650 --> 01:53:59,520 cent extraterrestrials and that's it and 2731 01:54:05,240 --> 01:54:01,660 when someone else comes in with a 2732 01:54:08,100 --> 01:54:05,250 different idea they really struggle with 2733 01:54:10,710 --> 01:54:08,110 giving up their own bias and their own 2734 01:54:13,350 --> 01:54:10,720 ideological sort of construct that they 2735 01:54:14,460 --> 01:54:13,360 built for themselves and potentially 2736 01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:14,470 looking at this from another angle 2737 01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:18,490 mm-hmm I don't necessarily believe in my 2738 01:54:24,570 --> 01:54:22,410 hypothesis 100% it's just a hypothesis 2739 01:54:26,430 --> 01:54:24,580 it's just kind of one I'm playing with 2740 01:54:28,500 --> 01:54:26,440 right now because it makes more sense to 2741 01:54:33,630 --> 01:54:28,510 me then the extra-terrestrial hypothesis 2742 01:54:34,680 --> 01:54:33,640 does I've not bought into it totally but 2743 01:54:36,330 --> 01:54:34,690 they're strengthened that I think I 2744 01:54:39,060 --> 01:54:36,340 think I think because I haven't bought 2745 01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:39,070 into anything I'm open to a lot if 2746 01:54:42,180 --> 01:54:40,690 suddenly an alien showed up tomorrow and 2747 01:54:43,340 --> 01:54:42,190 said yeah it's been us this whole time 2748 01:54:49,230 --> 01:54:43,350 we're from this planet 2749 01:54:54,210 --> 01:54:49,240 I'm in great I buy it what what do you 2750 01:54:58,320 --> 01:54:54,220 think the the future is as far as you 2751 01:55:00,210 --> 01:54:58,330 know people you know interpreting this 2752 01:55:03,630 --> 01:55:00,220 whole phenomena do you think it's going 2753 01:55:05,250 --> 01:55:03,640 to go along the lines where it's going 2754 01:55:08,130 --> 01:55:05,260 to keep growing do you think this is all 2755 01:55:10,550 --> 01:55:08,140 part of popular culture do you think and 2756 01:55:14,100 --> 01:55:10,560 then the last question I had for you is 2757 01:55:16,710 --> 01:55:14,110 you hear people often talk about UFO as 2758 01:55:18,439 --> 01:55:16,720 a religion do you think there's part of 2759 01:55:20,970 --> 01:55:18,449 that going on too 2760 01:55:24,060 --> 01:55:20,980 yeah I think this all ties in together I 2761 01:55:26,850 --> 01:55:24,070 think the religious aspects of UFO 2762 01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:26,860 belief are are a huge portion of UFO 2763 01:55:31,200 --> 01:55:28,690 discourse in the UFO narrative I think 2764 01:55:35,610 --> 01:55:31,210 popular culture plays a significant role 2765 01:55:38,970 --> 01:55:35,620 in how we interpret the UFO phenomenon I 2766 01:55:40,979 --> 01:55:38,980 think sightings are going to continue 2767 01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:40,989 whether they go up or down I don't know 2768 01:55:46,229 --> 01:55:42,880 but they're definitely going to continue 2769 01:55:48,149 --> 01:55:46,239 because I do think something strange is 2770 01:55:49,470 --> 01:55:48,159 going on if I had to kind of lay it all 2771 01:55:52,530 --> 01:55:49,480 out and if somebody said you know what 2772 01:55:53,820 --> 01:55:52,540 does MJ benaiah believe in it's that 2773 01:55:55,890 --> 01:55:53,830 something strange is going on 2774 01:55:57,510 --> 01:55:55,900 and that's all I have I don't think that 2775 01:55:58,800 --> 01:55:57,520 strangeness is gonna go away I don't 2776 01:56:02,700 --> 01:55:58,810 think that strangeness is just gonna 2777 01:56:04,649 --> 01:56:02,710 suddenly vanish and and leave us alone 2778 01:56:06,390 --> 01:56:04,659 I think it's here with us and it's been 2779 01:56:09,830 --> 01:56:06,400 here with us for a long time and we've 2780 01:56:13,439 --> 01:56:09,840 been interacting with it for a long time 2781 01:56:17,220 --> 01:56:13,449 but I agree that the way we interpret 2782 01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:17,230 this strangeness whatever it is it's 2783 01:56:20,850 --> 01:56:19,210 hugely influenced by popular culture and 2784 01:56:23,160 --> 01:56:20,860 it's hugely influenced by people's 2785 01:56:24,540 --> 01:56:23,170 desire to believe in something and this 2786 01:56:29,340 --> 01:56:24,550 is where that religious aspect comes in 2787 01:56:32,700 --> 01:56:29,350 I I think this is a huge part of UFO 2788 01:56:36,930 --> 01:56:32,710 discourse is belief and and telling 2789 01:56:38,610 --> 01:56:36,940 stories and and buying into ideas and 2790 01:56:40,709 --> 01:56:38,620 unfortunately a huge part of the UFO 2791 01:56:42,570 --> 01:56:40,719 discourse is people who know that and 2792 01:56:43,890 --> 01:56:42,580 people who play upon that right there's 2793 01:56:47,340 --> 01:56:43,900 a lot of people out there who are gonna 2794 01:56:49,740 --> 01:56:47,350 say I know what's going on and I you 2795 01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:49,750 know you can be one of my followers or 2796 01:56:53,850 --> 01:56:52,090 you can you can know - or you can be 2797 01:56:55,530 --> 01:56:53,860 enlightened just like me if you pay me 2798 01:56:57,600 --> 01:56:55,540 this or if you buy this or if you follow 2799 01:56:59,070 --> 01:56:57,610 me or if you you know there's a lot of 2800 01:57:01,919 --> 01:56:59,080 charlatans and snake oil salesmen out 2801 01:57:05,580 --> 01:57:01,929 there because they know that a lot of 2802 01:57:09,090 --> 01:57:05,590 people are looking for salvation dr. 2803 01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:09,100 Steven Greer Penn did I say that I 2804 01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:12,250 didn't hear anything but yeah yeah and 2805 01:57:17,850 --> 01:57:15,010 you know there's like one of anything 2806 01:57:19,380 --> 01:57:17,860 right one of many all right well hey 2807 01:57:22,410 --> 01:57:19,390 thanks so much I really appreciate it 2808 01:57:25,189 --> 01:57:22,420 had a great time well thanks for my 2809 01:57:28,229 --> 01:57:25,199 throw your blog out there if you would 2810 01:57:31,209 --> 01:57:28,239 yeah that'd be great and my blog is 2811 01:57:34,810 --> 01:57:33,370 that you can find all my work there if 2812 01:57:36,430 --> 01:57:34,820 you're interested in looking sort of 2813 01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:36,440 about the culture of UFOs and then the 2814 01:57:41,739 --> 01:57:38,960 philosophy behind them as well I write 2815 01:57:45,279 --> 01:57:41,749 for mysterious universe which is a sort 2816 01:57:46,930 --> 01:57:45,289 of much much bigger than so he's great I 2817 01:57:48,879 --> 01:57:46,940 am really generous to them alright 2818 01:57:53,859 --> 01:57:48,889 thanks so much yeah and I'll talk to you 2819 01:57:56,290 --> 01:57:53,869 soon MJ alright okay alright everyone 2820 01:57:58,419 --> 01:57:56,300 thanks so much for listening to the show 2821 01:58:00,939 --> 01:57:58,429 tonight and next week we're going to try 2822 01:58:05,109 --> 01:58:00,949 it again with the failed show last week 2823 01:58:06,819 --> 01:58:05,119 with Thiago - Chetta have a hard time 2824 01:58:10,149 --> 01:58:06,829 with his name from Brazil he'll be back 2825 01:58:12,339 --> 01:58:10,159 next week alright so thanks for hanging 2826 01:58:14,709 --> 01:58:12,349 in if you support the show thanks so 2827 01:58:22,810 --> 01:58:14,719 much for helping us out and remember to